Boat in the apartment. Proper exploitation of PVC inflatable boat

Do you want your PVC boat to serve 1 season and went to the garbage? If yes - then close this page, if not - find 5 minutes of time.

In this article, I will raise the topic of storage of PVC boats both in the warm season and in winter. This question is, although simple, but very important and always relevant to the owners of the boat.

Storage of the boat of their PVC in the warm season

After each use of PVC boats on open water. rinse the boat Both outside and inside, carefully removing the remains of garbage, sand, fish scales.

Of course, it is possible to do it right on the reservoir, where you used the boat. However, it is necessary to remember that microscopic particles of minerals will be met as part of a river or lake water, which can damage the material of the boat with sharp edges. therefore better go as follows:

• On the reservoir where you used the boat, clean the boat from strong pollution. At the same time, do not try to use tools with rigid and sharp edges (scrapers).
• Bring the boat home, do not wait for her complete drying. When dried, the remains of the river garbage (leaves, algae, fish scales) are stronger to the boat, and you will later have to make a lot of extra effort to consider them.
• At home, spread the boat on a smooth clean surface that does not have jar and hooks. Rinse the boat outside and inside the warm (not hot!) Water several times, thoroughly turning all the seams and removes the wash garbage from them.

To facilitate the process of cleaning and softening water, use the usual weak soap solution. Finally, rinse the boat with clean water, not leaving soap spots.

Use soft fabric to clean the boat. Not recommended When washing boats from PVC give water under high pressureSince at the same time the garbage particles can be clogged even more in the seams, creating rot and destroying the material of the boat.

With the arrival of cold weather, some fishermen postpone all their tackle until spring. If you feel about such fishermen, we suggest you do not sit, folded hands, but prepares for the next season, for example, to do. But if you are an avid winter fisherman, and do not have a father, then it needs to be done or buy, how to make it you can read in the article "".

After the boat is washed away, it must be wiped with a dry clean soft cloth and dry naturally in a fitted state in a warm, ventilated room protected from direct sunlight. In the same way, do the rest of the boat equipment (seats, oars, pump with hose and so on).

PVC boat purified in this way can be stored until the next operation. within 1-2 months. To store PVC boats in the warm season, thoroughly curve the purified and dried boat, avoiding fabric and seams.

Some PVC boat producers initially recommend turning the boat according to a specific scheme.

Place the boat in the case (it can be complete with a boat or purchased separately). Packed boat Store indoors, avoiding high humidity and sun rays.

To protect the boat during its storage period from small rodents (rats, mice), you can handle the perimeter of storage special drugs. Direct contact of the material of the boat with these substances is not recommended, since the chemical reaction to the components included in their composition may be irreversible and very poorly for the owner of the boat.

Remember that it is impossible to store a boat from PVC in a fully inflated state. This can lead to deformation and damage to the material.

How to store a boat PVC in winter

Preparation of a boat from PVC to seasonal storage in the winter period is practically no different from summer storage. However, it must be remembered that the boat will not be used for a long time (up to six months), and therefore with special care it is necessary to prepare a boat to storage.

For this boat should be fully sucked, do not allow moisture inside the cylinders through the valves, as this will lead to the destruction of the material of the boat housing.

• In the winter time, a boat from PVC can be both folded and pumped up.
• The optimal temperature for winter storage of PVC boats from +5 to + 15c. And for those who ask whether it is possible to store PVC boat on the frost, I will say - not desired.
• The best storage places at home is warm and dry pantry.

When preparing a boat to storage in folded form, you can move it with a talc from all sides. This will help get rid of moisture and sophistication of the material.

For the winter, turn the boat especially carefully, not allowing the folds and feces of matter. When storing a boat in the warm room, it is recommended to carry out preventive work in the form of periodic ventilation and pumping boat.

For the winter you can also leave a clean and dry boat in hazed condition. At the same time, it must be suspended above the level of human growth, not in contact with the walls or interior items, in order to prevent the formation of a wet condensate on the housing. For example, it is often kept PVC boats in the garage under the ceiling.

When choosing any of the Winter Storage Options, do not forget about the threat damage to the boat rodentswho, unlike the owner, can attend the PVC boat storage place much more often.

The basic principles of protection of the boat from rodents are the same as when stored in the summer.

At the end of the storage period of the boat, do not try to immediately pump the boat. Carefully spread it on a flat surface and wait a couple of hours until the folds are laughed, and the boat will type the ambient temperature.

We now turn to the most interesting. You have read what I know, and now I would like to know your opinion on how to properly store PVC boat. Can someone be able to add already written or wants to ask a question?

The furniture is not tinted in Moscow - all boats and ships are painted by the owners themselves with uncompromising bright colors. The average service life of such ships and boats is 15-20 years. The owner with love updates the design of his vessel every 2-3 years, gradually tapping it to the wear part.

When the life of the boat comes to an end, its color filling is a real object of abstract painting. Just look at these colors and textures!

At first Katya and Yang were thinking whether it was worth it to reflect and renovate the material, but the danger appeared that then he would lose his uniqueness and the charm of the antiquity. Therefore, the processing of boats is minimal, it allows you to save their original color and patterned beauty of cracks: the surface of the boat is angry to exclude the opportunity to get a zoom and make the material more pleasant to the touch, and make a special matte composition to secure color.

I asked how the color solutions on the sides of the boats are obtained so beautiful and harmonious. Katya explained that the inhabitants of this country have some kind of special artistic taste: "Lifestyle, houses, nature and religion - in everything there is its own beauty." According to Kati, in any of the ports of Java, Lombok, Bali and other islands, they have a feeling that they are in some kind of picture gallery.

Of course, not all the material that is brought from the distant islands is aesthetically attractive. The "LikeLodki" team very carefully selects it. I felt that the guys would fascinate the color and combinations of shades. For three months, Katya and Yan chose the desired material, literally swam in the courtyard of the factory in search of ideal pieces - the details and boards are not sorted by the colors, so you have to tinker. Usually warehouses are a huge open-air space, all the boards.

I realized that Yang from Katya very carefully control the selection process, try to participate in it in it and explain in detail what color or boat size they need it. For example, at first this beautiful chest of drawers collected from too dark parts. Then Kate with Yan had to go to the factory storage in search of the most colored and colorful pieces of wood.

Now, when I looked at this dresser in the "Depst" store, bright Jackson Pollock cannons arose in the head outbreak.

Now the young "LikeLodki" is the first attribute. For him, Katya with Jan ordered a 20-foot container with 70 boats and chests. The boats were loaded right at them - young artists took care of the package very carefully, demanding several layers of cardboard to buy furniture so that she would safely reach Moscow.

And while the dimensions of the container were carefully calculated in advance, during the loading boats suddenly it was discovered that the place was left yet! Then the operational mode had to be tamped by other interior objects: otherwise the boats could be damaged during transportation.

The stool was captured in the production process, so they brought it to the perfect state in the workshop in Moscow. Here Yang shook the rough surface of the tree and the touch immediately feels like it becomes more pleasant.

All the boats live and fit in a 16-square meter workshop, where Katya and Yang independently made the second floor for boats.

On that day, when the native boats approached Moscow, the couple spent the night in her workshop in a double hammock, because during the daytime, freight cars could drive into the center. At 5 am, the long-awaited cargo arrived and somewhere by 7 am all the boats took their places.

Katya and Yang call their workshop "house of boats". And here is really special, homely atmosphere. Even a little mysterious. Here they are - wooden treasures - real and quiet, packaged, slim, in the evening sunshine plays dust, smells like paint and wood. And so I wanted to see what textures and colors are hiding under a monophonic gray-yellow cardboard.

"Likelodka" is proud to offer the design nontrivial for our country and love the planet: the furniture is made according to the principle of "Recycle", which means there is a single condensed tree. The brand shares the philosophy of the Ekodisa, more than relevant now all over the world. Boats and ships are given the second life - only already on land.

Katya inspired me to tell me that at every stage, he had a choice of a boat, in her purchase - an element of creativity was already present, because these unusual items require emotional involvement in the process.

Yang and Katya on the second floor of her studio

At first, Katya with Jan thought that their target audience would be cafes and restaurants or designers. But ordinary people were the main and most responsive buyers who would like to have this unique thing at home. Because another such will no longer be.

Boat in the interior

"Likelodk" is a progressive brand, open by any suggestions. If you have any ideas about furniture from shipboards, you can safely write a friendly team "LikeLodki"; For example, the most unusual wishes from buyers somehow made a boat in the form of a bed.

"Likeelodki" has even its own boat model. She is a real beauty. It is used for exhibition and advertising purposes. For example, at the festival "Manor Jazz", she performed in the role of a kind of photobudka: it was photographed and desires made out.

The boat is big, especially compared to others. I was played by the story about how the guys had to be explained in the factory that they need a boat in which a person will fit (and maybe not even one), and the owner of the factory was all perplexed, the same size we have people and what kind of activity it will happen there ; After all, Indonesians are known for their miniature and compactness. The next time this boat can be seen at the exhibition "Sea Amore", which the magazine "Seasons" arranges on July 26 in the Hermitage garden,. There it will be the most important boat in the world - a boat recognition in love. So, if you want to say anyone about your feelings for a long time, it's time to do it under wooden vaults of a 15-year-old Indonesian boat, which is exactly enough space for two - verified.

Perhaps it is the metamorphosis that occur with the tree most attract me in such furniture: at first it was a deaf log or fallen tree trunk; Then - the boat with which the Indonesian family could feed himself; And only then - the subject of the interior, which crosses the huge distances before getting, for example, in the Moscow apartment and remind you of the sea. Katya told me the story that somehow said the head of one of the factories: once one of the inhabitants spent alone in the open sea almost a month and saved only thanks to the boat. I think the owner of the shelving made from such an item will certainly attract the good portion of good luck in his life!

I realized that the boat for me is one of the characters of travel and adventure. The heart strives for traveling, especially if you live in a big noisy city and you have a stressful work schedule. I closed my eyes and drove the palm on the uneven surface of the boats, presenting how much the way they would be done to Moscow. They also remain cracks and many layers of colors, as wrinkles from frequent smiles, anger or sadness on the face of a person over time. The warm tree stores history that even makes these interior items partly animated. If you decide to have such a thing at home - let it bring good luck to your home and notch adventurism.

Photos: "LikeLodka"

Where can I buy and watch furniture "LikeLodka":

So, the summer season is completed. In the cold season, fishing from the boat is a dangerous event. So it's time to make preparation of your plaques for winter. Because the correct storage of PVC boats in the winter is the key to its long and reliable service. We highlight two important stages:

Step number 1:
Cleaning PVC boat from garbage
Absolutely all boats for fishing need pre-clean before long-term storage. And it does not matter what they are made. The fragrance of fish scales and algae must definitely attract mice that will nibble with the same pleasure of rubber, polyvinyl chloride and made from the bakelite plywood seats.

Do you live in a private house? Excellent! Remove the flooded to the courtyard, turn the cylinders and rinse it with the hose water. Pay special attention to the places of fixtures of stringers and seats, as well as sections of the connection of cylinders with the bottom of the PVC boat: It is there that the small garbage is accumulated. Although, for example, boats for fishing brand TM Radia do not have any fixtures on the bottom. A special design allows you to simply insert the bottoms of the flooring (Slav-rug or a little book). Therefore, to buy an inflatable boat of this brand - to ease your life. Caring for these boats and preparation for descent on water takes a minimum of time.

But back to cleaning the PVC boat from garbage. Quality polyvinyl chloride toranged to chemical impacts. If necessary, you can use any detergent:

Gel or liquid for washing dishes;
- ordinary soap (economic, children or even soap from expensive brands, which has expired shelf life);
- washing powder.

Divide the selected detergent in the water. Wipe moistened in the resulting solution with sponge unable to ordinary water areas. Ride the tool, slip the boat and leave it in the air to complete drying.

Car cosmetics and PVC boat: "Yes" or "no"?
I am often asked about whether it is possible when cleaning the PVC boat from pollution to use special car cosmetics for vinyl, seemingly a common root in the words "Vinyl" and "Polyvinyl chloride".

My answer will be "no!". Because almost all cleaners or poly rays for auto in their composition contain silicone or other synthetic substances that cannot be fully flushed - they remain on the surface in the form of a "protective film". Such a film is good for the dashboard of the luxurious car, but is destructive for polyvinyl chloride (over time it corps it under the influence of sunlight).

On the other hand, there are special means for dry car wash, the action of which is based on their composition of biodegradable components. These components are booming a biomusor and allow you to get rid of it without unnecessary gestures. Such means to theoretically can also be used for cleaning PVC boats before winter storage. But it is expensive and impractical. The usual detergent from the above list can cope with the task as well, and it will be cheaper at times.

PVC boat in an urban apartment
Many residents of high-rise buildings will have to keep their float in the apartment in the winter, and wash in the bathroom or in the shower. I will say right away: this method is suitable with a size of a boat 190, 220 or (maximum!) 250. PVC inflatable boats for fishing larger sizes will not fit into the average bathroom.

Important nuance: Be sure to check the air valves before you begin to wash the floating. They must be closed! Otherwise, water can get inside the cylinders. We will have to look for a special key, unscrew the valve and pour water. This is troublesome. And it is also unknown whether it will be possible to return everything as it was.

Step number 2:
Preparation of PVC boat for winter
Floating washed and dried. Further exercises with him depend on where exactly you are planning to store it. Options are two: in a special shed (the garage) or at home, in the storage room, in a boat bag.

In the first case, it will be optimally suspended by a puffed boat on the slaps to the ceiling or rafters and stored in this way until spring, pre-slightly smiling cylinders. This method of storage allows you to fully protect your boat for fishing from rodents. An additional bonus will be the lack of coming with PVC boat preparation by the beginning of the next season. They took off the sling - inserted the seats and the bottoms of the floor - the cylinders were pushed - they attached the oars to the floors - ready! You can enjoy your favorite hobby again.

Residents of urban apartments are forced to store PVC boats in folded form. But your plaques from polyvinyl chloride will take at least a place, only if it is properly folded. And to fold it as compact as possible, you need to stick to the following sequence of actions:

How to fold the PVC boat for the winter?
- Using the pump, remove the remnants of air from the cylinders, connecting the hose to the "reverse" valve;
- Wrap the nasal part of the boat inside to the supports of the nearest seats to it (as it were for a third of the length of the flooded);
- on top of the nasal part Put the feed part of the PVC boat (this is another third of the length, and if you have a motor boat, first wrap the stationary trauma inwards);
- Now turn the boat to yourself sideways. And start twisting the resulting result in the direction of the valves, pressing and squeezing the possible remnants of air. Again, if you are the owner of the motor, then it will not work it across the transom. But here is logic to help.

Thus, from your boat will come out all air. The outcome of the effort will be very compact bundle. Put it in the bag and put it in the pantry or in the closet - and so it can be stored all winter.

Do I need to use talc?
Until recently, fishermen and hunters slept their plaques with Talc when preparing them for storing in the winter. All because these flooded materials were made of rubber, requiring special treatment.

With the invention of the PVC boat of the torment of the owners of "Inflatable" ended. Polyvinyl chloride products do not need to be treated with Talc. Moreover, even with a unwashed boat for the winter nothing will happen. The material will remain integer if it is not bred by the mouse, although such experiments are non-mentioned.

PVC Boat Storage Conditions: Humidity and Temperature
High-quality polyvinyl chloride is not afraid of sharp temperature and humidity drops. You can leave the float in the closet, in the storeroom in the battery area, on the balcony. The unheated garage is suitable. According to the instructions, the minimum safe temperature for PVC boats is -30 ° C. In practice, the material is withstanding and -40 ° C.

At the same time, be sure to remember: polyvinyl chloride - fuel material. Use for heating of fans or other types of heaters that can spill up to high temperatures? Make sure the place where you are going to store PVC boat were at a sufficient distance from a potential source of fire.

PVC boat preparation for fishing to winter storage is completed. Properly performed, it is at times increasing the service life of the focus. And at the same time allows you to start a new season with an excellent mood. Because it is very nice to understand that for the winter with your beauty nothing will happen, and know that the first fishing next year will pass without adventure.

Have questions? Ask - I will try to answer them as detailed as possible. And if you have your secrets on the winter "conservation" boats PVC - share here in the comments!

Yours faithfully,
Sergey

Boat from PVC. Now there are many fishermen and fans of water shots. Someone buys the most expensive model from the famous brand, and for some quite a fairly budget boat. The service life of the product is determined to a greater extent price, but proper operation. Therefore, only a well-friendly person should be sent to swimming. Extend the resource of the Bloodflowers will help tips on handling boats and competent storage.

How to handle the boat

1. Regular cleaning - After swimming, clean the surface of the boat from fish oil, grain and algae. Nalipot particles and aggressive chemicals contribute to the destruction of the tissue. Clean the seams thoroughly in which trash is often clogged.
2. You need to clean not only the boat, but also components - pump, oars and other elements also need care.
3. Drying - Do not leave a wet boat in the garage. It can be covered with mold, and in the cold time - an icy crust. As a result, the material will begin to collapse.
4. To the surface faster dried, the boat needs to put a side. If you wish, you can wipe it with a cloth.
5. Washing with soap - never trituit boat with metal washcloth or abrasive detergents. Before long-term storage, clean the floodedness of a soft sponge dipped in a soap solution.
6. Careful appeal - Use drawers for fishing facilities. Do not put on the bottom of knives and hooks that can break through PVC.
7. Summarize the shore - before going to the water, take sharp snags and stones from the road.
8. Take care of the boat from the fire - the heat from the fire or the unintestated cigarette can melt the material. Do not smoke next to the boat. Crying matter is much easier than to restore it.
9. Carefully fold the boat - store the product in the folded state. Watch that when folding inside the convolution, the branches and particles of the Earth did not fall.
10. Cut the drying of the boat - it will be better to drain the water.
11. Fold the flooded with open valves in the direction from the stern to the nose. If you have a model with a motor, the ends of the cylinders need to be pressed to the transit.
12. Do not wind the boat with heavy items during transportation or storage - such actions quite often lead to breakdowns.
13. Do not leave the product under the scorching sun - it is especially dangerous to leave on the heat of inflated boats. Look for a place in the shade of trees or indoor canopy.
14. Keep the ship in a safe place - often new boats suffer from rodents. Keep away from the unreasonable guests, a well washing fabric. Then there will be no smell of fish, which so like mice.
15. Create optimal storage conditions - the room should be maintained from 0 to 25 degrees Celsius. If you left a boat at minus temperatures, allowing it to be searched in warmth.
16. Discard the talca - it is suitable for rubber products. PVC will be difficult to clear what it will later make it difficult to repair.
17. Do not attempt to make tuning to your headless means - if there are no seats in the boat, do not put the boards or logs in the boat. They will damage the fragile material.
18. Carefully learn the instructions, always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
19. At negative temperatures, it is better not to deploy and do not move the rolled boat, since unwanted cracks may form on the tissue.
20. If the ship is suspended under the ceiling, it does not experience strong differences of moisture. And rodents will not be able to get to him and arrange a nest.

Inspection and repair of the boat

Not always damage during operation is manifested immediately. The canvas usually breaks through the first time, but after long use. The bottom is rubbing, races and cracks are formed, which sooner or later make themselves felt. Therefore, after each trip, you need to inspect the boat.

If the puncture failed to avoid, the repair kit is useful. Usually it is attached to the boat. Close up a hole or loss in the field. PVC material can be repaired and on the same day to engage in fishing. The damaged area and the poppip must be in advance with acetone. Purified surfaces are glued with polyurethane glue.

Storage of boat in winter

It is desirable to highlight a separate room where the boat will wait for the next season. The product should not come into contact with other things. It is advisable not to turn the flooded in a tight bundle. Otherwise, the probability of cracking of the material will increase. The boat must be freely rolled or partially filled with air.

It is impossible to allow water to fall on the surface of the material. It should be selected for storage not sleepers with a normal level of humidity. Otherwise, the accumulated moisture will turn into ice and will destroy PVC. Install the boat can be installed on a pedestal or smooth surface.

You can store the boat and the garage, and in the city apartment. However, minus temperatures will not benefit. The inflatable vessel is extremely unwanted to leave near the heating devices and all the more, near open fire. Do not put heavy items on the bottom, even if you keep the ship at home, warm.

Motor care complexity

The engine is most of all suffer. During the operation of the motor, it accounts for a large load. With long-term storage on the engine, condensate and various deposits can be formed. Whereas during operation, this usually does not happen. Therefore, do not forget to periodically inspect the engine, especially if it is stored in a cold room.

Failure to comply with the rules of care reduces the resource of the boat 2-3 times. A competently stored boat will serve you for many years. If you retain it in a dry garage, where there are no rodents and aggressive liquids, then it will fly away without prejudice to the next season.

The material of such boats is a fabric covered with high-quality polyvinyl chloride. Moreover, layers of such tissue are several. Such floating conditions can overcome many aquatic obstacles and for a long time to live with a neat handling of it.

A curious discussion of life on a 40+ yacht has unfolded. User Alloy Boy. I wondered what was done from the apartment to a small boat:

"All day I see yachts from the window of my office, and it seems to me the life of them proceeds so serene, "he writes. - Is there really there Nowhere to turn around, how does it seem to me (if you live alone)? How fast do they depreciate? A quick search shows that "Sorokofutovik" is fairly comparable to the apartment or a small house, but what are the advantages that you live on a yacht (except mobility)? "

Here is what answers he received:

IMaka.

"This is a very relaxed life and quite comfortable, but it all depends on your needs and desires. By the way, in most places for the 40-foot yacht, you pay much less than the apartment.

Life on the boat is not for everyone. It can be pleasant and relaxing, but to make it such, you will have to lie. If there is an opportunity to live on a yacht without buying it, then it is worth doing this.

You must take care of fresh water and emptying waste tank. Behind the water will have to run ashore - sometimes in Marina. Something there is a shipping water to the boat, but the experience tells me that it is rather an exception. Personally, I was not so lucky. When my husband and I were standing for a long time in one place, we had to capture 20 liters of water every time every time we went ashore.

Need electricity? If so, think about wind generators or solar panels, everything depends on the terrain where you live. Refrigerator? The most greedy to the energy device on the yacht. There are less voracious, but they will be in a penny. Want to have a hot shower on the boat? Think whether it is warm enough in your area so that daily costs the "summer shower" or it is worth buying a water heater.

What about breeding? If you have a gas stove, especially force 10, two burners and oven, it's fine, some complements it by a barbecue barbecue in the cockpit. With the stove you should have a gas sensor in the cabin in case of leakage, the gas can be accumulated at the bottom of the boat, which will lead to an explosion.

If you are anchored, then you will have to get to the shore on Tuzik daily. Take care to not stole it. Is there transport on the shore? The better, you don't have to carry underwear for washing, products, etc. Do you work every day? Keep in mind that there will be days when it will be difficult to get on Tuzik to the shore.

Want a TV and internet on board? We used usually mobile Internet. Sometimes it was lucky to catch an unparalleled Wi-Fi. A fairly highly installed antenna will provide free TV channels. Naturally, the quality of the picture will "chrome" when the boat is moving.

Again, depending on the region, clothing may suffer from moisture and mold. To avoid it, we hid all in hermetic bags.

There are those who prefer to rent places in Marina, they live on board and get most of the convenient houses. But not all marina allow it.

I would repeat my experience if it is possible and if there is a right person nearby. "

drwer2.

"I am thinking about it myself. Many years floated, a pension is nearing, and the prospect of having a second house attracts. If you work, you probably do not want such radical changes.

If you do not scare life in the cone, then forward. On the yacht, standing in Marina, you will get the following: long walks to the car and from it with shopping, daily bars to the shower in Marina (the drain bank will save the situation, but you will not be able to empty it in the marina, and you will pay for it weekly) or You can go to the sea every week to empty it there.

I strongly recommend a bright (or white) interior. Dark tree drives off the winter months. In addition, in winter you can suffer from claustrophobia. That is why for those who plan to live on a boat, I advise you not to save on space. The greater the place, the stronger your mental health.

In many ways, it's how to live in a van ... with a probability of drown. "

Doh

No washing machine / dryer. "Interruptions" with water. Everything is modest with cabinets and cooking. Beds leave much to be desired. Shower with boxes. All year round everything is removed. The smell of gasoline if you have a motorboat. A knock about the pier, even if the boat is tied. There are no heaters on many yachts, on all I have been to, there was no air conditioner. At best, you will be just cramped. With entertainment tight. The pet is practically unrealistic. Stretch in full growth? Forget.

Everyone, of course, so, but I myself would like to live on a boat - but only in a long journey, and not to join Marina and dangle to work there and here. Maybe live in the Caribbean in the winter, and in the summer to move to Maine? I would like to reach Europe from North America. Other life!

Think about it in such a way: to have a boat as a home, it's like having a motorcycle for all occasions. Sounds romantic, but how comfortable it is in practice?

william G.

You do not need to stay where you do not want, you are in the literal and figurative sense of the "captain of your ship", and no one will argue with it.