Is it possible to take out a loan and go live abroad? Debt tourism: people run away from debts abroad and after a couple of years start life with a clean slate. Take a loan and leave
Today I inserted a Russian Megafon SIM card into my cell phone in order to see a couple of phone numbers recorded on it. I haven't used the number for probably six months. And then SMS messages started pouring in from Alfa Bank, while roaming, and with a paltry 100 rubles balance. I must say that I use this number extremely rarely, during my visits to Russia, in order to quickly call my friends and let them know that I’m there. The 300 rubles spent on a phone in 2008 was enough to this day. And then, before I had time to utter a word, a stupid advertisement for loans consumed all my money on my phone. Not only did he take him out of his apartment, but he also ran out of money on his phone. It’s a small thing, but an annoying little thing, you’ll agree. Out of interest, I looked at the SMS, and there was a super-duper offer to take out a loan from them for 730 thousand rubles (about 25 thousand dollars) at a uniquely low interest rate, only 22% per annum. American and European readers, I did not mistype, in Russia 22% per annum is considered a very profitable offer, this is not your ridiculous 4-7%, from which everyone groans. Personally, it has always been incomprehensible to me how people take money at such draconian interest rates and how they manage to return it, but that’s not the point.
But I decided to conduct a little experiment -
I called the bank and said that I was very interested in the loan offered by your bank, your interest rate is very “small”, it’s even amazing how you make ends meet. The girl on the other end of the line cheerfully began to tell me that they valued me extremely, that I was a super important client and other nonsense.
Valuable client
And it should be noted that through this bank at one time I carried out a number of transactions, from the purchase of an apartment in Georgia to shares in Gazprom. If we ignore the fact that the same amount was passed, plus or minus, several times in a row, then in general over the last couple of years I have “invested” about 24 million rubles (800 thousand dollars) there. I don’t know how clearly I expressed myself, I’ll try to explain with an example. Let’s say you want to show on your bank statements in order to obtain an American visa that you have a large salary, although you are completely unemployed. A friend gives you a certificate of employment, but of course he won’t give you money. You take it and deposit 100 thousand rubles into your account for 3 months in a row. And within a month you withdraw them through an ATM. And so three times in a row with the same amount. Is it clearer now? In my case everything was very simple. You buy and sell shares, withdraw money, and invest it again. There are two banks, Gazprom and Alfa, so you transfer them back and forth, just a technical detail, it was more convenient.
I ask, what do you require as a guarantee that I will return your money? She replies that it’s nothing. How so? Nothing at all? What if I run away to the Lebanese-Israeli border tomorrow (however, I’m already here)? They say that all you need is a general passport with registration and a 2-NDFL certificate. And that's it, no guarantors. I ask, what should I do if I don’t have a residence permit? Oh, say girl, then we won’t be able to give you a loan. What if I make a temporary registration? No, that's not possible either. The girl unexpectedly advises me to “register” with relatives. Very funny.
I thought
Now it’s clear why there is such a high interest rate on loans. Apparently, there is a huge number of non-returns. High level of risk, expensive insurance for banking activities. It’s ordinary citizens who pay in rubles for billions of money that was taken and not returned.
What does the presence of registration and personal income tax prove?
Typical Soviet absurdity. What will my registration give them? Moreover, it is absolutely formal among strangers who are not my guarantors? Then shake off my debts from a random heavy drinker who signed me up for a few thousand rubles? What does personal income tax give? That I worked somewhere and once. But where is the guarantee that I won’t be fired the day after receiving the loan and I won’t declare myself bankrupt? It would be wiser to give a loan secured by property. Let's say a person has an apartment/garage/dacha/car - so they should be made “hostages”. Frankly, I can easily get both registration and personal income tax, without visiting Russia. Friends will formally register him as working at the company “Horns and Hooves” and will give him as much personal income tax as necessary. The issue of registration (registration) will be resolved using the same scheme; the price of the issue is around 10-15 thousand rubles for everything together. So, will they give me 742 thousand after this? Some kind of communism. It is not surprising that many people decide not to repay their loans.
Once upon a time there was a rogue
I have a Moscow friend. An old and good friend. A smart Jewish guy with the face of Antonio Banderas, a romantic, a lover of women and a scoundrel. One of those people who have worked very little in their 30 years, but always have money, although they always owe it to everyone. I called him today, after communicating with Alfa Bank. And he asked, Anton (let’s call him that), tell me, how much money do you owe to creditors? He laughed and said the amount was around 20 million rubles. Wow, I exclaimed, how are you going to give back?
Anton explained that he did not take out loans in order to pay them back. And to live beautifully. But what about collection agencies? He replied that he communicates with them exclusively by phone, taking my reports on the topic as an example. Well, since the banks are fixated on registration that no one needs and repeat it like a mantra, they step on the same rake over and over again. Okay, I say, let’s say your registration is fake... No, Anton interrupted me, it’s not fake - the SB Bank will easily check it, the registration purchased in the metro does not fit, you need a real one, say in a rubber house, and you take out a loan for this registration.
Let’s say, I agree, but is it really so easy for banks to give such colossal sums to you, a cute mediocrity from a “rubber house” and with a virtually left-wing personal income tax?
Bank security idiots
Anton replied that the first 3-4 times they gave it without any problems. He added that the security guards of banks, as a rule, are stupid sheep, former investigators of the Criminal Investigation Department with connections in law enforcement agencies. But, Sasha,” he says, you yourself said in your LJ that databases in Russia are almost non-functional and that you fly through the same airport either as a Russian or as an Israeli. It's the same in everything. The salary of an SB bank employee does not depend on the efforts he puts into an in-depth study of the bank’s client. You have a registration, it’s real, and you’re registered with some Federal Migration Service—that’s enough. No one will conduct an investigation and clarify where you live specifically and why another 150 people “live” at the same address. The same thing with personal income tax - they need reporting for 3 months, period. The fact that you are listed as working for exactly 3 months, and before that you haven’t worked anywhere for 10 years at all, is not of interest to them. Moreover, says Anton, these idiots from SB Bank do not even reflect that at the time when he was supposedly “working”, in fact he was not even in the country, but was hanging out in Thailand.
Travel abroad
On the topic of how he travels abroad, since travel is probably closed to him, Anton replied - but here, thank you, Sasha. I strictly follow your recommendations on the topic of traveling to Ukraine with general civilian duties, and from there I fly out of nowhere. Either through Belarus or through Kazakhstan. The main thing is not to fly out of Russian airports or travel on cross-border trains - they may not let you out there, and data exchange with neighboring countries exists only in words, but does not work in reality. In the end, Anton added that he had already accumulated enough money that he could emigrate. Where? For starters, you can go to Israel, although your heart lies in Canada. But he cannot leave Russia directly; Canadians require a certificate of no criminal record, and he has several administrative cases for non-payment of loans and taxes. But if you first go to Israel and apply to Canada from there as an Israeli, then you only need a certificate from the Israeli police, but in Israel he is “clean.”
What if Canada requires a certificate of no criminal record in Russia?
Here Anton, I suppose, is not aware of his happiness, but I am completely aware. The fact is that the Ministry of Internal Affairs cannot store information about a person who has never lived in Russia, right? Several years ago I received a certificate of no criminal record for myself, for the US embassy. I received it on an Israeli passport, although I am a citizen of Russia and even hypothetically nothing can happen to me as an “Israeli”: there is no such person in Russia. A month later they sent me a certificate stating that there was nothing listed on so-and-so. The Americans accepted the certificate.
Do you know why I didn’t make such a certificate for myself - a “Russian”? These idiots from the Ministry of Internal Affairs refused to accept my request without registration at the place of residence. Where can I get registration if I haven’t lived in Russia for a long time? But they happily agreed to provide a certificate for an Israeli passport, which by definition has nothing to do with Russia, differing from the Russian one not only in the writing of the full name, number, but even in the place of birth (in Israeli birthplace - USSR). Taking into account the clumsy and barely working database, directly linked to the place of birth and registration, such an uncertain parameter as USSR, and even the absence of a patronymic, brought the system into a stupor.
Thus, even if I had something listed on me in the Ministry of Internal Affairs database, I would have received an absolutely legal certificate that nothing was listed. Now ask the question whether the hero of the post reads our discussion and what conclusions he draws
About Russian databases
We spoke above about the fact that you can leave Russia almost uncontrollably through Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. They also talked about the fact that officials are fixated on the morally outdated “registration” system. As the discussion progressed, I was advised to find out my TIN (and I don’t know my TIN) through the state website of the Federal Tax Service. I assumed, before I even opened their page, that with a 95% guarantee everything was done crookedly and nothing worked. Still, this is not the first day I have been dealing with Russian government agencies. Turned out to be right. It is not possible to find out your TIN, which is to be expected. Service is temporarily unavailable -
It is quite difficult to imagine the life of a modern person without a loan. Many people have debt due to various circumstances and reasons. Loan debt is a cause for concern, but bank employees help their clients pay the debt according to an agreed schedule. Problems begin as soon as a person begins to plan to travel abroad. Then the question arises for most citizens: “Is it possible to travel abroad with an unpaid loan?”
You can check whether you can go abroad on our website by filling out the form below.
Departure is permitted to persons who have obtained a loan legally, make payments on it on time and do not have any debts. Therefore, before traveling, you can take out a loan and go abroad calmly. Border guards are obliged to release, they have no right to prevent exit.
Thus, it is possible and quite realistic to travel abroad with a loan, even in cases where there are minor delays in monthly payments. Such debts will be visible only in a special database owned by the Credit History Bureau.
Difficulties will affect citizens if they have systematic violations of the payment schedule, therefore. This requirement is enshrined in law, so a visa is not issued and people are not allowed to go abroad. Such restrictions will remain in effect until the arrears are eliminated. Otherwise, you will have to travel only within the country.
But it’s worth knowing that you can go abroad, even if you have debts to pay your loan obligations, if there is no official ban on it. It is issued by bailiffs, based on the bank’s claim and the decision of the court that must consider it. Usually this process takes a long time, and as long as there is no official ban, no one can prevent the departure.
But this does not mean that the bank cannot demand repayment of the debt. You will have to pay off debts, since the bank can take away the property from the borrower through the court, impose penalties on the current account, or contact the human resources department at the place of work. .
The ban may also apply to mortgages, so a person may well become unable to travel abroad. But again, only a court can prevent a person from going abroad. A mortgage has a longer repayment period than a loan, so you need to be careful to make payments every month.
They take out loans not only for money, but also for equipment and transport. Most often this applies to passenger cars. . The fact that the car was taken on credit can only be evidenced by the absence of a vehicle passport. But they don’t ask for it at the border, so you don’t have to worry about whether they’ll let you go abroad in such a car. But experts advise warning banking institutions that there is a possibility of such a trip.
Features of leaving with a loan
Some banks require guarantors when applying for a loan for large amounts. They suffer in the same way as non-debt payers. If they do not make the required payments, then they will not be allowed to leave the country. This is due to the fact that both the guarantor and the loan applicant bear joint responsibility for the timing of payments. Because of this, the measure developed by the court in the form of a ban on release outside the state applies to all people.
It is important to know here that if the bank has already won the claim, and the person does not continue to pay the debt, then the loan will become the reason that the guarantor and the borrower will not be allowed to go abroad. The court's decision automatically applies to the former.
Sometimes the borrower asks whether it is possible to travel abroad with a guarantor. The most important thing is that the court decision does not prohibit travel, since if there is one, it will be impossible to circumvent the legislation. The bank is going to court not to block people’s access abroad, but to oblige them to pay their debts. Therefore, if, in the presence of a claim, the borrower begins to regularly make payments for the loan, any foreign travel is permitted.
A complete ban applies only when the debtor begins to hide from the bank, does not make contact with the bailiffs, and completely ignores the debts.
The ban can be lifted as soon as the first payment on loan obligations is made. To do this, you need to take the receipt and contact the bailiff who is handling the paperwork. Within a few days, and most often within 24 hours, a decision may be made to close the case and lift the restrictions. To completely lift the ban, a longer period will be required - from 7 to 14 working days.
Based on this, if you have a loan, mortgage or a vehicle registered for payments, you can almost always travel abroad. To do this, it is worth making regular contributions to the bank so that there are no obstacles to tourist, business and excursion trips.
In the event of a court verdict, two important aspects must be taken into account. Firstly, the claim is not put into action immediately; this requires very strong arguments. They may be ignoring the debt and avoiding meetings with representatives of the court or bank. Secondly, the travel ban has a validity period. It is usually valid for six months, during which borrowers must repay part of the debt or make mandatory payments.
“We do not have a survey of the number of debtors who left Estonia. But not always, if the debtor goes abroad, we can talk about debt tourism. A person can simply go to work, study or for family reasons,” says Indrek Niklus, head of the private law service at the Ministry of Justice. “European legislation also takes into account the fact that people move from one state to another, and it may be necessary to enforce a court decision made in another country.”
Niklus notes that for such situations there are many regulations that provide for various procedures: how to send an executive document that is valid in the EU, or another document on the basis of which enforcement proceedings can be started in another country. It is also possible to recognize, for example, a loan debt based on a decision made as binding in another country.
“But since this procedure is quite complex, changes are planned in the EU in the near future that will make the start of enforcement proceedings in other countries more convenient and faster,” adds Niklus.
According to him, if enforcement proceedings have already been initiated to collect the debt, then they are applied in accordance with the laws of the country where the debtor is located. That is, if enforcement proceedings begin in England, then the laws of England apply.
“This also applies to the statute of limitations,” Niklus agrees. “And in the end, it may indeed turn out that if the deadline for executing a court decision is six years, then it will no longer be possible to collect the debt after that.” However, this does not mean that at the same time the debt cannot be recovered using property located in Estonia in accordance with Estonian laws. Therefore, it is quite possible to escape from debts to another EU country, but this means that when the debtor returns to Estonia, the debt will still remain.”
Remember your name
In this case, the situation may well turn out to be much more complicated: a person, knowing that he is leaving Estonia, collects loans wherever possible and disappears in an unknown direction, without telling anyone where. Search and search for him all over the world! It will not necessarily be limited to the EU.
And in a situation where enforcement proceedings are far from perfect, creditors have obvious difficulties in finding the debtor. At the same time, many do not even resort to the scheme suggested to Dmitry: people do not go to court with a request to write off the debt. And they don’t declare themselves bankrupt. Such debt-ridden tourists simply bask in other countries, leaving credit institutions and individuals to worry about their searches. If a person does not plan to return to Estonia and has no property left here, then the situation is extremely difficult.
When applying for a bank loan, the borrower undertakes to return the money to the bank on time and in full, including accrued interest. And if you decide to take out a loan and leave without repaying it, it means breaking the law.
If the borrower has problems with repayment, banks do their best to return their money, for which they involve collection companies, use seizure of property, a court decision may order the deduction of part of the salary towards payments, and you may also lose the opportunity to travel to another country . However, all this applies to non-payers; if you make obligatory payments in good faith, going abroad will not be a problem.
Can a bank prohibit you from traveling abroad?
It must be said that the bank itself cannot prohibit anyone from leaving the country, and even more so if you are a conscientious payer. Moreover, those who do not pay their bills at all, but have a loan amount of less than 10 thousand, are also unlikely to be in any danger - trying to “punish” such a client, as they say, costs themselves more.
The travel ban is imposed by the bailiff service; this measure is temporary, but it can be extended an unlimited number of times. That is, until you repay the debt to the bank, you will not be able to leave.
What to do if you have problems with repayment
First of all, you need to realistically assess your capabilities and not take out a loan if it will not be easy to cope with the payments. If it so happens that the loan is issued, but you cannot repay, then:
- be sure to cooperate with the bank, remember, flight is not a way out of the situation;
- you can take advantage of credit holidays;
- restructuring will allow you not to spoil your credit history, the amount of debt will not increase, and there will be no problems with traveling abroad.
