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How to open a shield in the entrance? Proper replacement of automatic switches in the shield shield on the ladder scheme.

Good day, dear guests and readers of the site "Electrician Notes".

Literally yesterday, one of the relatives asked me in his entrance. We did not become a replacement in a long box, because His counter has already been bought, and I always come with myself in the car.

Old single-phase induction meter CO-I466, which he wanted to replace the newest SEOR-55, was on his landing on a staple shield.

In this article, I will stop in more detail on the replacement of the counter, but on the storey shield and its scheme.

So, let's go.

I will immediately say that the goal of replacing the electric meter is to agree, has a number of advantages before taking into account the electricity on the same total tariff.

If you still think what a meter to purchase, I recommend reading articles on how correctly.

As I said above, the old counter of my relative was on the staircase (cage) on a storey shield.

The floor shield is designed to obtain and distribute electrical energy through consumer apartments. Also, its main purpose is to protect the exhaust lines in the apartments from and overloading.

And now we will look at what a floor shield and the scheme of its connections consists.

What is the floor shield for 3 apartments

I forgot to mention that 3 apartments are located on the staircase, and therefore the storey shield is designed for 3 apartments and no more. That's how it looks like:

To be more accurate, then this floor shield has the designation of Shhe-3302. Decipherate:

  • Shhe - store shield
  • 3 - has a separation for low-voltage and low-voltage networks
  • 3 - 3 apartments
  • 02 - Execution of the shield scheme (I will tell about it just below)

The floor shield of this label consists of 3 compartments:

  • enterprise
  • distribution
  • for low-voltage and low-voltage networks

Each compartment is closed with its door. For removal, viewing windows are provided.

Now we'll talk about every compartment separately.

Introductory compartment on a storey shield

The introductory separation of the floor shield consists of trunk wires that go through special channels (intermediate emptiness). The wiring of the main lines is made by a four-wire, wire of the APB (aluminum) brand, cross section of 16 square meters s.

All three phases of the main wires (A, B and C), as well as zero (PEN), join the terminal blocks without breaking the wire itself. This is clearly seen in the photo.

With these terminal blocks, aluminum wires of the APF brand, cross section of 4 square meters go to the distribution office.

Distribution department of a floor shield

The distribution compartment of the floor shield consists of a removable frame on which special planks are located for. In our case, there are electric meters of three apartments.

Also on this frame installed DIN rails under group lines of apartments and batch switches that close the protective panel.

Department for low-voltage and low-current networks

There was another branch on the storey shield that we did not consider. This is a separation for low-voltage and low-current networks. It contains telephone and intercom cables, alarm lines, Internet and satellite antennas. I didn't do this photo of this department, because There was no need to look there.

Floor shield scheme

Floor shield diagram is shown below.

As I said above, the main wires without break are connected to terminal blocks. Total 4 terminal blocks: phase A, B and C, as well as zero block Pen.

With terminal blocks with wires of the APF brand with a cross section of 4 square meters of wires go to batch switches in the following order.

  • phase A and Zero goes to the patchwork of Apartments No. 2
  • phase B and zero go to the package of apartments number 3
  • phase C and zero go to the package of apartments number 1

Next, from each packet, the wires go to the electrical energy meter of the corresponding apartment. From the electric meter, the wires go to 3 group automaton. Two automaton have a rated current 16 (a), and one - 25 (a). With these group machines, the wires are already in different junction boxes of the apartment.

Hello Dmitry. But some lower limit should be below which the supply organization should not move. Meaning three-phase food. According to the documents, the allocated power to the house is 5 kW. Storm to the house is a new Sip 4A-16mm. Vl is also in good condition. For heating there is a TTK and in parallel with it are installed three tanks. I don't know power, now before spring and then in question. But if I am at a minimum of 1 kW, then 2 kW remains for life. For winter, somehow it turns out. Is it possible to take something to increase power?
In one of his articles, you wrote that the capacity limiters are not legal. And if there is a "smart" counter and it has been programmed to turn off the power when the power is exceeded. As then?

Hello Dmitry.

With the TN-C system, grounding in the apartment (without upgrading to the TN-C-S system) cannot be done. Connect the PE contact with N contact in the home outlet (i.e., it is impossible to do) too, because when the Pen conductor is heated, somewhere before this outlet (on entering the apartment or floor below) the electrical appliances housing will be under voltage. In this regard, two questions:
1. Why then is it allowed to join the panels on the landing (as in your case)? After all, when the Pen conductor is heated, somewhere before this shield (on the floors below) will occur the same as when reducing - it will be under the "residual" potential, "came" from zeros of all apartments located above the place of warming , Accordingly, representing the danger of the defeat of email to any passing and hiding this shield person?
2. If it still is allowed to start a common shield, you can not, how do some electricians do ("without having another opportunity at the TN-C system"), PE conductor of the flat sockets to put on the shared shield case? Will it be the same as if it was done in a home outlet, and therefore invalid?

Thank you so much))) Very good site)))

Thank you very much for the site! The information is set out extremely clearly and will be useful both beginners and electrical professionals!

Interestingly, if it is replaced in this shield 1 automatic 25a + 2Avtomata16A-one automata 40a, it will not be a violation? House management will not finish?

I did after replacing these switches and transfer the counter to the apartment. After the batch switch, I connected the machine to 40 (a), from it the introductory cable was already in the apartment distribution panel, where the meter and group automata was installed. But to accomplish this, you need to agree the nominal nominal machine with a power supply company. Come to them in the reception hours, tell your situation. If you have little knowledge by electrics, then call the electrician with you.

Please tell me how the correct name and marking of the transit 3-phase block to which the phases are connected in the shield. On the last photo on the right. In my shields a little in another performance (above the hinge counters through the bolt). It is very necessary for the audit of the flaps, and I will not find anything on the Internet for the purchase.

Dear admin, please tell me on the current standards whether it is necessary to hang tags indicating the appointment and section of the conductors as phase so and zero on store panels?

Valery, according to PTEEP, p.2.4.5. Open cables must be equipped with tags, brands, voltage, cross-section, number or name of the line should be specified on cable tags at the beginning and end of the line.

Good day!
If possible, I would like to know the answer to the question from Sergey dated January 30, 2014 at 21: 49 ...
Thank you!

Another question) The shield scheme is similar (only we have 2 group automaton on the apartment). Aluminum wiring, PE is not. We make partial repair of the apartment and would like to make a partial modification of electricians (without alterations of what there are alterations of a storey panel), but the organization of several additional consumer groups: 1 (bathroom - washing machine + hairdryer), 2 (kitchen - built-in electric stove + Electric lights Gas panel) 3 Kitchens (refrigerator - Kitchen alarm apron (microwave, blender ... kettle) and 4 - stationary computer (+ peruphoria) and TV with DVD. Wiring 3x2.5 copper, without connecting PE to the palate.
It is assumed to organize a small apartment shield for the RCD and automata only on consumer data.
Question: How to properly and competently make a removal from a storey shield in an apartment? From one of the automatic and earth bus? or how? In this case, it is necessary to perform aluminum wire in this case, and then in a small shield through the machine go to copper?

Thank you!!!

On your question - read. I told there about the modernization of the storey shield.

yesterday I changed the counter because of the overpriced testimony, the shield of someone has already chopped very nonsensely on his vehicles from the counter discovered the wire when it turned off in my apartment (nothing turned off in my apartment (the neighbor came in the evening it turns out it was her kitchen socket) There was nothing turned off in the apartment in the apartment (and the third neighbor also did not turn off). Only one phase of 16 kV (three apartments, the last floor) and Peng comes to Schit. Now the question remains - who has what zero sits on the jack meter?! By the way, my kitchen rosette with a grounding also did not pass through my zero from the meter and immediately went to the total zero tire with a grounding (meaning zero from the spout and ground) to zero, two wires leaving to the apartment are approaching the existing on my meter - one Exactly mine, the other you need to nick where it goes. The question is

i'm going to install LED lamps in the entrance and the visor instead of Cobra in the whole house 6 entrances and 9 floors. The desire to include on the timer and those and others. Tell me where the MOP washed from, if from the shield, then you can all the entrances to fit into 2 groups? and manage them from one place?

good day! Tell me how many exhaust machines can be put on the flat shields on 3 apartments? In a typical project of a residential building with gas heating on the outgoing lines on 1 apartment, 3 cars on 16a stand, we have a project with electric stoves and you need to put the machine for 25a 220V 6 kW stove. Need to replace one machine on 16a on 25a or you can additionally add one automatic on 25a?

Good day!
The question of replacing the counter. All as in the photos, but there are no packet, although there are below they are. How to disconnect the voltage in this case? In fact, if the wires are kept with the wire and unscrew the wires, then it will not kill?! And then also connect the counter back?! How to install a Dean Rake with your machines so as not to remove the car machine, they are structurally installed on one rail? If aluminum is suitable for the meter, then it can be copper from it to automata, and then from each machine, an old aluminum wiring next goes?
If you put a packet (or automatic, then how much ampere) in front of the counter, then from it to the meter and from the meter on machines copper with the subsequent aluminum of old wiring allowed?

I also want to install a separate machine for a washing machine. Just do not know how to spend 3x2.5 WGng in the kitchen. Electricians offer input to make the site into the bathroom, omit along the water / sewer risers further across the bathroom in the kitchen, is it allowed to be allowed? Are there any schemes on the channels of electrical wiring in brews?

The world of 150914 on the furnace is better than 32 A, on the rosette portion 16a, on the lighting 10a, again, looking at how many rooms will need to be divided by the load

Alexey 111014, practically possible, only the passats should be with isolated handles, and dielectric twigs, and if you do not have experience better not to risk and call an electrician
Din Rake can be put, you can loosen the screws on the bar and pull the old automata,
From the counter you can drive copper, but if you gathered a meter or de-energize it wisely, it will throw copper to it,
Before the meter, if rolling put 50a or 40a
It is better to lead by the corridor to the cable channel, without any toilets and bathrooms
Not PEU and PUE

Good evening, please tell me, interests the question about circuit breakers. Wiring was replaced in the apartment, but until he had time to change the introductory machine in the corridor to the apartment (old was 25a). When working at the house of the plate (a separate automatic machine in the apartment in the apartment) was closing, the automatic machine was turned off in the corridor of the introductory (as I understood it weaker than on the stove - therefore I broke it), I changed the introductory automatic on 50a, I think now when the slab will be directly Basting in the apartment on 40a. I turn on the stove, after a few minutes there is no light anywhere. Slazia into the shield, the automaton of the plate 40a is knocking out, I go into the corridor - knocks out the introductory machine to my apartment - 50a and knock out the entrance to the floor 63a. Why immediately 3 knocked out? Should it be only directly on the stove?

And you have any wiring, maybe because of the overload of thermal and chop, and the wire on the stove warms and adjacent

In the sense of which? Wires All new VVGng, on the plate 3 * 4 laid

Look for KZ, and the machine on the stove must be put 32a

The same shield. A gas stove, so separate, non-working zero, "zero" from the body of the shield in the apartment does not come.

Question. Washing machine in the bathroom. We take and equalize the potentials of all available hardware - we connect the bath, all the available risers are thick copper jumper. You can even organize a tire copper and each riser to connect with it with a separate wire. Metal pipes - they are in any way in the ground and on them absolute zero potential.
The body of the machine is hanging here. Those PE rosettes for the machine connect to our earthing. In the case of the phase leakage on the case, the machine knobs / automat. In a very bad case (if the leakage and machine gun did not kill anyone, because all the potentials are equalized by jumpers, there is no difference, but it does not kill the potential, and it is the difference - birds on high-voltage wires sit, and their neighbors too.
Those, as far as I understand, we get something in the form of a TT system with a grounding of water pipes.
But it is impossible to use the system of ruins of the potentials of potentials in the form of water pipes. Question - why? I would like to hear - not because it is forbidden, but on specific examples, what it can lead to.

SERG, because now they often make inserts in risers from non-conductive elements. And in the case of a breakdown of isolation on the drain, the potential may form, the difference of which from the ground and can kill (and not even necessarily - and, for example, a neighbor below)

And I'll add ... Here you are, serg, well done, asked. And the same neighbor from the bottom of this (consult and ask) will not do (we are all smart). And the result will be, as in Answer Alexey, only exactly the opposite. That is, now you will be the role of neighbor.
Well, as the regimental pranger breeding: on your riser makes repairs with partial disassembly. All - no eating - get the very difference. Is it worth saying that to warn the neighbors about the leading work - we are considered "bad taste."

DHW and HB3 pipes must be grounded when entering the building!

AND…? Who senses with this? Entering the building is one. Yes, let at least three times grounded: the owner of the apartment on the 3rd floor in a 9-storey building will replace its part of the plastic riser (this is not prohibited) - "And, hello, Shishkin": the upper floors over this host already without grounding this riser.

Hello. I'm a little bit the topic, my mother just puzzled, decided to find an answer on the Internet and stumbled upon this site, I saw that a person was a professional, so I hope you tell me. So, Mom told that the neighbor on the landing was called in the afternoon, which was with a neighbor's tenants from another floor. Neighbor asked the key from the shield, they say the tenants from another floor they want to connect the Internet ... but! What is our shield? Why a person from 3 floors wants to connect online 1st floor struts. Is some fraud possible? Comment please the situation

Anastasia, maybe they want to stretch the Internet cable through your shield onto your floor. Look in the article, for this there is a special compartment in the shield (for low-voltage networks and low-current cables). But in general, you can directly ask and ask. There is no fraud here.

[i] "Packet" I did not clean, but when replacing group automata on modern and reconstructs of this shield, I will definitely remove it.

Why do you need to do?

at least because over time, they begin to twisted and switch without dismantling, and they do not have protection against KZ, according to their principle, this is a switch or load switch

And what protect the entrance machines? Counter?

Counter, and cable to group machines

Answer: Pavlu
12/19/2014 at 21:38
Paul, before the accounting device, it is not necessary that the circuit breaker must be installed. In front of the accounting device, the switching machine must be installed as a load switch, a circuit breaker or switch (switch-disconnectors), the task of which consists only for removing the voltage from all phases attached to the meter.
I quote PUE paragraph: 7.1.64. To safely replace the counter, directly included in the network, before each meter should provide a switching unit for removing the voltage from all phases attached to the meter.

What is the key to open such a shield? Where group machines, a screwdriver, and everything, and however, the door is always open. But the big door is the problem open!

Alexei:
01/13/2015 at 20:09

Contact your hob.

I have 2 Soviet black machines and the meter on the same scheme all, only there are no acuters. I will install the Neva 101 (as I understand it up on the same holes). If you change the SPORT machines for 3 to 16 (the third is still about the reserve). Between the meter it is worth putting an automatic? And which? All wiring aluminum. What section is used (in the house gas)? Can you make a comb from aluminum? Machines for 4,5s install? Schneaders Indian Easy9 are very different from Bulgarian schneaders (at a price by 2 times)?

For a month already thinking, I got to the cross section of the wire. Stopped on the copper 1x4 sq. MM MARK PAV.

Alexei:
01/20/2015 at 02:22

Between the counter and the introductory wire, it is better to put a 2-pole automatic machine for 20a., To install it, it is necessary to buy and fix on Dean Rake's shield (Dean Rake is selected on the width of the machine or it takes longer, then scolded on the desired size). At the introductory automatic, the inspector will put a seal. The wire in old apartments with aluminum wire is 2.5 square meters. Less does not happen. Comb, or rather the lintel between automata, can be made of aluminum wire with a cross section of 4-6 square meters. Mm, but it is better to take copper, as you want and make it from the counter to the introductory machine, the same wire make jumpers on automata, but I would bought a comb on 3 automaton (in some stores it is cut at the desired length). Machines for the apartment must be taken with the characteristics in or C.

Good afternoon, protective shields were removed on a storey shield, the wires have twists both before the instrument of accounting and after. This is after the invasion of the electrician from the housing. I make a job to restore the Puete, tell me what partitions of these rules can I rely on my handling? Thank you in advance

Tell me at what distance should there be a store (total) flap from the apartment? Is it possible for PUE or does not play values.

And the wires are connected to the top to the shield, if the difference is what wire where to enjoy? We have 3 wires!

Tatiana, do you mean the wires from group machines going to the apartment? If so, then you need to observe the polarity when they are connected - the phase is connected to the machine, and zero to the zero block. I did not quite understand about "3 wires" - where do you go?

Hello, I would like to know how to turn off (enable) wired internet through a floor shield?

Incorrect question. And what, the Internet is always through a storey shield, and without fail with the network connected? The Internet can also be applied to the optics, then you can turn off the classic method, from turning through the plugs before the wires. For the whole apartment ...

after the fire in one of the apartments of 4 in the shield of 5 ethnic, all wires are covered with molten borants (I do not know how this material is called), in one of the apartments since November, it began to flash light (intelligible) that is, it is not now almost daily, electricians From Housing will come to climb the nuts and everything, the time will pass everything repeats, they say call the laboratory what to do?

i am writing about the apartment on the 5th floor. Today an electrician came again, I applied the contacts, I noticed that the entrance lamp also flashes, to clean the contacts on my proposal, the wizard temperature had some kind of impact on their surface, stated that it was operated by an electrician 4 years, closed the box and left

Is it possible to independently replace the wires coming from the packet to the meter and from the counter to the automata?

You can, if you can then select the terminal compartment in the meter. There is a possibility?

Answer: Peter: 02/13/2016 at 06:55
Only qualified personnel is allowed to a similar type of work.

clarify whether it is possible to replace the wires that go from the packet to the meter and from the counter to automata with the planned replacement of the meter? Replaced the meter independently (according to all the rules of Mosenergosbyt), I did not like that aluminum wires. I would replace them too, during the time I'm waiting for the fillinger .. But there is a doubt that I have the right to change them. I wrote an application for filling, etc., and how about the wires?

the packet opens both guides - and electrical work is not under voltage. I have that the tolerance should be? Is my confidence enough in your qualifications? If I change the wires, should I report to someone as the counter in front of Mosenergo? I am more interested in organizational issues.

Answer: Peter: 02/15/2016 at 12:32
Peter electrical installation is under voltage. And disabling the VP from your accounting device you did not de-energized electrical installation. To do this, you need to switch in the village. What to de-enerny your storey Shchur. Therefore, you continue to work under the tension at your own risk.
Yes Peter you must have a group of admission and qualification of the electrician. You can pick it up in your apartment in your apartment. This is your property and manage electrical installations in it you can as you want. But the floor shield takes into account the distribution room for your property is not. And if during the period of any works, allow any errors without having, for example, the necessary skill or knowledge when connecting the electrical appliances it may not end. As for you and for your neighbors. Do not forget about it.

Hello.
There is no load to the meter (no machine or packet) on the storey panel.
Is it possible in this case to restart the counter?
There is a suspicion that the "brains" counted BARS-1.113 at the correspondence.
While good load do not give, it does not want energy.
With electricians in the hob we have everything bad.

Yuri, it is unlikely to solve the problem. But nevertheless, if there are no switching apparatus in front of the counter (and otherwise it is a violation), then you can de-energize the trigger riser, however, it is necessary to order it in advance from the company that serves you by electric.

Please tell me if you are planning for the packet (it is also planning to ban it on 50a) to replace 6mm copper (a large load in power from the apartment) and from the packet through the same 6mm to put in the apartment and collect the shield with automata, you can collect Is it like that? The counter is left the old co-466.

Good time day!
It was settled to work in an energy sales company for the installation of instruments of accounting and would like to ask.
We do not give out the keys to inter-storey shields, such keys should be only in the bezen, the wizards on the keys from the existing refuse to do, is it possible to buy a similar workpiece and modify the napfil, or all the same you can find a good wizard of the keyboard, the key is in principle a simple and sample on Hands are

Vladimir, nothing to do in these shields without the consent of the owner

I know that counters on a storey panel are located in the inverted letter P. And how should the automata versions should be located if they are not in the line? On the floor 4 apartments. There is a suspicion that the church neighboring family of My Uzo on 25a connected himself, and I got to 16a. This is not even resorting to their reinstallation, simply reconnected wires. ((When the automaton is triggered by the habit, she looked at other machines. But a lot of time passed after it was interested in his automata, could be mistaken.

Where does such knowledge of the data about n legs? Yes, and what, in fact, the difference is right, or n up to your legs, if there are there or so, or the edition, and four?
No matter how they are placed, but not difficult to trace during the skill and understanding. But not with your fingers!

Elena, hello. To be honest, I did not quite understand you, namely, about the counters established by the "inverted letter P". Better send me a photo by mail, and better on the forum (link to it in the top menu of the site), there and discuss all moments. Thank you.

Speech about the location of the apartment counters, including the letter P » The score was found from the upper left counter to the top right through the bottom (the top left 1kv, the lower left 2kv, the lower right 3kv, the top right 4kv). Such an order of location was adopted in the USSR just that the tenants are not confused and did not check the shutdown-shutdown method to whom what counters belong, and even more so, did not face the shield. ???
In the distribution window, too, at a certain order (just what if they are not in the line?) The car levers were located (for example, for temporary disconnection from the network to change the chandelier), the housing wiring should not be interested.
After replacing the automata, I was satisfied for a long time for the distribution window did not fit. The other day I have a chandelier at 180kvt in the inclusion of chandeliers in 180kvt. For old memory, I looked into the distribution window - all four lever showed a working condition. And the neighbors (according to my old memory location of their machines), just, one of the 4 levers worked. It turned out that by location, it is now my automata. But my memory can pass on!
I thought you may know the location of the automata according to the rules designed in the USSR, if they are not in the same line ... UPS ...

where to find charts of switching campaign packet switches. It is enough to connect the welding machine of MCC 1902

Roman, what specific type, brand, model ..., or "generally"? Then a lot of options.

Elena, are you these "rules" where saw and when? The USSR has no 25 years, during which time it could change a lot in your Rush. Yes, and know where your cars are not necessary for old and incomprehensible "rules", but specifically, even by signing them with a marker after verification. Then the memory will not pass. Well, with a power, we will disperse, 180 kW-too much.

Hello, changed the counter in the apartment in the apartment, put the ESO 711, in two days he wrapped 12 kW despite the fact that I was usually more than 80 kW per month not expenditure. On Thursday, the representative of the REU will come to seal the counter.
The question is this - is the counter defective or connected in more infavory ????

I will add a bulb flashes green, there were indications on the counter, but I do not remember Toli 1 kW Toli 10))

So consume you or 2, then if 11 kW. Somehow, disperse, guess and help in such a situation is very difficult.

can it be connected incorrectly ?? Although 4 contacts are confused there (

Dmitry, good afternoon.

1. Rather, Betar ESO-111, and not ECO-711.
2. It is really nothing to be confused in a single-phase meter, or will be considered, or there will be a KZ. You also have some kind of electricity, which means it is most likely connected correctly.
3. Alternatively, and most likely there is - the old counter strongly underestimated power consumed. For what reason did you replace it - on the prescription?
4. Alternatively, self-propelled. But in two days 12 (kW) - a bit too much. Here the inspector will come to be seized - ask him and he check the error of the meter and will definitely give the answer.
5. Do you write off the testimony correctly?!

counter co-e711, with a digital scoreboard, I live in Kazakhstan a company SAIMAT manufacturer, the light bulb is unlikely (3200imp / kw hour) flashes quite rarely and most likely 10-11 kW on the meter it was already even straining

In the passport of the meter, the value was always written in kW * h after the meld and acceptance, did not look?

Well, in general, I pulled this counter and changed in the store that I took it to a new one and put on Tuesday at 15 o'clock 00 minutes, today it was 11 kW at 12 hours on it, i.e. Approximately 5.5-6 kW / day. The result is the result from the replacement of the zero counter.
The apartment (one-room) refrigerator works, nothing was erased these days, half of the bulbs of the housekeeper, the computer also works constantly almost, a couple of times a microwave, a couple of times an electric kettle, one person lives.
The meter was seen today.
Chet somehow it turns out (
Counter electronic self-like be like should not, some foreign connections in the shield to my machines and wiring I did not find, sockets in adjacent with neighbors there are no walls either
Can my wiring to give an excess load ???

Dmitry, then your old counter strongly understood. Everything is true. Refrigerator and PC, as you say, constant load. Take rounded that they together consume 200 (W) or 0.2 (kW), maybe a little more, maybe a little less. It is necessary to watch their specific characteristics or measuring the current by the ticks. So in 1 hour the meter counterses 0.2 (kW · an hour). During the day it will be 4.8 (kWh). Plus lighting, microwave, etc. So it turns out 5-6 (kW · an hour) per day.

Yes, I already thought so too, I figured the load, the computer there is a powerful of course 24 hours a day, but I think the power supply is 100-700 there, because the person works with computer graphics, because he does not live in the apartment himself, but I do not live in the apartment Rentally I can not accurately determine the burden on consumers, and the tenant can also be confused something. In general, thanks for participating all

1- It was not possible that the sensitivity of the SE was shortly approximately about an order of magnitude and more. If the wheel did not see the TV in the standby mode, similarly and the rest, then the electronic, see the passport, will also see a meager for consumer concepts. And such devices, like and turned off, but still consuming, in the house there are a lot and all crouch, eat, eat, eat, like mole ...
2- yesterday turned on x / to a two-chamber ethnic chamber through the device showing the current, and voltage, and the stop. Energy, from 8-00 yesterday to 12-30, 1.8 kW accumulated today * h energy, let it be 1.6 kWh * h, multiply on 30 and get.
The 3rd walls are unlikely. You were or "tokalo", or washed somewhere, and it would not be silent.

good afternoon. I do not understand the scheme. What is it from a non-political wire to automatans.napped over it 40a? And that this is on the RSH 10A scheme. Thanks for the answer.

Automatic machines 40 A for el-plates, 25Ads, 16- Lighting. The extreme wire on the left and right group and the rightmost in the average as-land on the slab.
The outlet 10 ampere-service, was in Rush, threekontactory, just so everything is sorely painted. Take the faith.

it is drawn that two automaton for 16 and one on 25 in a bracket from above designated. And 40 ampere above zero output. Interestingly drawn

As you knew how and painted. There is an original metal plate from the same Rush, exactly so namalian. Well, the artist was not an electrician, sho to do?

Good day! On store panels railway There are no protective panels on apartments. Tell me from what material they can be made (it will be problematic from the metal).

Durable and non-combustible- Textolite, Ghetinax.

Please tell us, and what is the point of attaching two apartments on one bolt on a zero tire, and the third to separate? To save space? This moment is even reflected in the scheme.

If it will not be fixed separately. Is it a little non-seeing on this white light? Here at least the wires are not charred along with the screw.

All hiking is a bow. The leak is that an electrician, d / replacement of the sch, caused by application from Mosenergosbyt. 1985 SO-50, put the Neva. But the data from it very badly "fell" in the watch. Skno El.Chita (Lesn.Pl. For 4 sq.5-fl. (Khrushche "). I, so upset that Requested from setpoint., wrote in the act, in Kv-Re, he fucked old and did not partition. Awelded later
How to be? You need to go to Elcomp., I know, but what the counter is suitable, they are unlikely to know what they have. Wanted, as always, only the money 4550 \u003d "Ollenged". Whether the compathelate claims me about lack of seals ??
Be kind, answer quickly, because it is necessary to go to them, and the woman "circle", they are easily.
Thank you.

Svetlana, you certainly swallowed, abandoning the installation of the new PU "Neva". First: the old PU one is no longer sealing you, since all the deadlines of its operation have expired (16 years old 16, if there was verification). Secondly: this is not your problem that the testimony is not visible, the shield usually opens and write down the readings either the tenants themselves, or those who are completed with the specialists (I do not know how you everywhere else). You have one way out - as soon as possible to report to the company, which is engaged in sealing PU (meters). But only precisely to the one with which you have a contract, there is its phone on the receipt of electricity payments, or in your management company (apparently it is "Mosenergosbyt"). And let me know that you intend to replace the old PU for a new one, but since you removed the seal (although, in the pricing, your PU is considered unsuitable, and with you, most likely removed the electricity in the average or according to the standard) and tearfully ask them about installing a new one. They will install the PU and seal themselves. If this is not done - you will be given a huge penalty for failing, believe me - it's really no joke. Explain the situation, because you have an act left, about the fact that the seal is not violated you. In general, the master was to initially describe you the whole situation. But I have not met this yet to abandon the installation due to the fact that the numbers are not visible, it's just unprecedented nonsense.

Why can not re-conductors from the apartment to attach to the shield housing along with zero.

Good day. I am going to replace the old Soviet traffic jams on the circuit breakers. I have a five-storey brick house (Khrushchevka) 68 years of construction of four apartments for the floor. There are two rows of eight traffic jams on the electric boiler staircase. For each apartment, four tubes are two top and two lower.
I have two top stoppers - rooms and sockets of these rooms, two bottom stoppers - an entrance hall, a bathroom, and a kitchen with a socket. Any of two traffic jams of any row turns off all the rooms and outlets of the same rooms. This is how to determine which automaton 16a and which is 25a, to then replace the switches with the corresponding rates. I am writing long to completely outline the situation.

Good day!
Unfortunately, I later joined the community.
On storey panels installed automata AB-25 or them like, and
They were attached to two screws to the rear panel and DIN-RESEKs there could not be. In Russia, the RIK TN35 was introduced by the National Standard GOST R IEC 60715-2003.

Alexander. Post from 03/31/2017 at 23:48
Question to you. And where is the accounting device (counter) between these "traffic jams", or ...?

My extreme left two top and two bottoms, as well as a batch switch at the bottom of the left left, everything is on the photo. At the bottom of the four meter in a separate compartment, as well as there are compartments for low-current currents, and there are no access to both compartments, closed on the castle.

Alexander, first of all, you need to watch the sections of the depot cables or wires, depending on what you have from the shield to the apartment. And already knowing the sections, pick up the correct nominal machine. , for example, with the help of the same caliper.

my 5 kopecks.
Satisfy the question If anyone knows about this, five-storey house for 3 apartments on the floor, my possessions start on the other side of the shield and I want to make the input 3x6 VG, the cross noted the estimated hole for the wire (so as not to stick the wall and not enter the wire through the door The box, as all neighbors did it), is it possible to drill there, will I not get on the track? As I suppose the depth of the shield 12cm, and the thickness of the wall is 15-17 and in principle there should not be wires, no wiring detector.
Thank you.

Vasya, we did that in one of the panel houses. After all, the place of laying of the main wires and the entrance of them to the inter-storey channels is clearly visible, and nothing is laid over the shield itself and not closed into the walls. At least should not, because The wires in the shield are laid in an open way directly in the shield.

What device can be found grounded or the housing of the shield is replaced?

Dear author, you can question. We have a two-storey three-box, three apartments on the floor.
Apparently the time for the replacement of storey shields came, but I would not want to see this huge bullfin of standard iron shields on the floor. Is it possible to use conventional shields, plastic, for example, ABB ,?

alexander! Read carefully?
... Old single-phase induction meter CO-I466, which he wanted to replace the newest SEE-55, he was on the landing on a staple shield.
In this article, I will stop in more detail not on replacing the meter, but on the storey shield and its scheme ... (c)

Keywords "He wanted" !!! And last sentence, right?

The quality of all the counters is suitable, but not all electrical electricians have suitable screwdrivers.

And the main brain.

I wanted to place the fiber-optic interface converter in the Ethernet interface in the low-voltage section of the floor shield. But for this you need power 220 (you can 12 volts). How to defeat the power of the power section of the floor shield, from its counter to the lowest? And in general, is it possible to do this according to the rules?

Vladislav, probably, it is impossible for the rules. I also thought once, I thought, I thought ... And then I installed a 2-pole automatic machine on 2a in the plastic box to protect and safely replaced the diode lighting light bulb in the low-current section of a floor shield in the plastic box.

In this section, I have some phone boxes with a bunch of wires running on other floors. Telephonists are periodically visiting and digging in these boxes, but they do not complain about my automatic.

Why can not and how to be all this IT officers? And so be absolutely calm, no one asking anyone, and then the zeros and units on the group and apartment SE are not converged. We have in the house when moving to Osmd, they found a couple of illegal immigrants of the IIT-cable, they were still allegedly allowed.

Pav, I definitely do not know, can be formally impossible. In our bar houses there are channels for telephone and radar, only they are often clogged with garbage. Telephonists also violate, do not want to clean the channels and will be elevated with their wires in the 380V compartment to go from the floor to the floor.
So if they express me ever for my automatic, I will point them to their telephone lines going next to the riser.
And people sometimes and sockets put in a low-current compartment for the nutrition of any aestish trash.

Yes, such deviations. On the supports and it is impossible to hang phones and metal lines of radio and TLF networks, nevertheless hang and fight with them, it all depends on the degree of filling glass - agree or not interested. This is as a scoop and did not ask, and hung everything. But if you do not allow a power line to hang out something else that each operator will begin to plant their supports ??? And in Rush, it is grown, knowing perfectly the conditions of the game - you are a wunk, I am a wool.

And what was the machine on 25a in this shield?

Alexander, for more powerful consumers, for example, the same electricity, only less power than was supposed to (5.6-8.0 kW) with the corresponding machine 40 (A), which is indicated in the scheme under the asterisk.

It was also in highlights with email / plates - 40 A on the stove, 16 and 10 on the sockets and light. Sometimes 16 and 16, sho these gear got.

Hello! Please, help! We have in the 5th floor of 3 apartments on the floor and on the site, old counters whose disc is spinning. In theory there is an aluminum wire everywhere. I want to put automatic machines on the markup of 25 amps so that each room is not dependent, and the automata to light 16 amps. UZO 40 amp. Do you need to pre-clarify the management company something or all this within the GOST and can I be calm? The husband says it is possible, and the grandfather it is necessary only 1 automatic machine 16 amperes otherwise everything in the neighbors and on the site burns.

Why do you need in sockets 25, and on the lighting as much as 16 amp ??? A welder and spotlight will put? For sockets 16, for light and 10 with heads enough, Uzo-25a
And that the neighbors are podrit, so the only opinion of the grandfather, no more.

It came home the light is not lit, and in the shield on the stairs there is a partner caused by neighbors during the repair of the apartment. I asked why the light was not lit, he said that she accidentally hurt the rotten wire, and he fell off. Before that, there were no problems with the shield. After a minute, the light turned on. But worry left. What to do and how to check whether everything is fine on my side of the counter.

Natalia, unfortunately, this happens in the old shields, which for years (and maybe with decades) did not know normal services - while no one touched the old wires, everything seemed to work, but it was worth a chance to hurt, and could something fall off.
For example, this private owner prevented his work chaotic wires, and he decided to push them away a little, and one wire was separated.
Whether he had the right to pick up this shield - this is another topic. Carry the presence of a seal on your meter. If the wire randomly treated, he fell off, then he was screwed him into place, then it was not yet scary, you can call the Zhekov electrician to check the TMM everything. Worse, if this partner randomly broke not only rotten wire, but also some rotary seal on your meter. In this case, you need to go faster to the appropriate office and write a statement so that you are not accused of breaking the seals.

Find a qualified and sane electric. Alas, remotely, except for flood, is unlikely to help.

Lounger: Thank you so much for your answer. Only I do not understand how the Iron Wire could have grown, aren't they eternal. And I have a new meter. Everything else we changed to all in the house in 2000. Thanks again.

Natalia, as an option, could be a weakened contact in the nut from the highway or any other connection site. When working in the shield, the electrician could randomly with a light movement of the hands help him tear off. The second option, he just could mistakenly turn off your apartment, and so that in your eyes it does not look stupid, he invented a story with rotten wire. I do not think that if overhaul in 2000 was made, there could be rotten wires. In any case, the highways and taps from them were changed. Although the rotten wires could already be after the meter, going, for example, to apartments, because inputs in the apartments did not have changed?! In general, it is not important that the main thing is that he restored you nutrition! You remains how you recommended Lounger, only check the presence of a seal on the meter.

The photo is not ahti, but the work is decent, some angles are worth. Vitely, accessible, understandable. I would give to Pisaock.

And the electrician will leave after Schuchi to Kish, there are no papers. Either work on a paper contract, or to negotiate an advance. They work in the hope that only students will pay, because they did not burn.

Hello. We decided to change the machine guns on the apartment. The electrician has old cars that are in a separate place, turned off ... And new machines now stand straight where the counters are ... the same door.
We have y-alone. We all watch the automata standing as it should be, and we are different. Like it normal? T

Elena, there is nothing terrible in this, he just posted all the machines along with the meter on one DIN rail.

Each protective apparatus has a specific period of work, the circuit breaker is also no exception. If this device fails, then it is necessary to replace it immediately. How to make a replacement, as well as what causes a fault, it is important to know not only the electrician, but also to each homeowner so that it can correct the problem in an emergency. In this article, we will consider in detail how to replace the machine in the shield and who should pay for this work in different cases.

Causes of replacement of automata

There are two main reasons:

  1. Frequent operation of thermal protection.
  2. Permanent work at the limit of possibilities.

It happens that even after the first response of the thermal protection system, the machine stops working. However, it is impossible to notice this breakdown. It is important to know that the electromagnetic and thermal release is not the same. Most often, breakdowns occur due to the burning, and later, and the complete combustion of the contact clips, as well as the body of the modular devices themselves. This happens mainly through unreliable and poor-quality contact. If the wiring is made by an aluminum wire, then in places of connection with time there will be a weakened. Aluminum Soft metal and contact compounds with an aluminum wire with time weaken, aluminum "floats". In order to avoid negative consequences, it is necessary to tighten the contact clips of automata once every 2-3 years.

Another reason is a factory marriage, but it is extremely rare. To avoid marriage, you should not save, and choose the machines of famous brands. O We were told in a separate publication. You should be attentive, because when installing this marriage does not make anything about yourself, but when he loads itself, it will definitely be shown. Regardless of the reason why the device stopped working, you should immediately replace the automaton, otherwise the malfunction can lead to.

Also, the need to replace protective devices occurs if old tubes cost, and not new circuit breakers. About Tom, we also talked in details!

Replace technology

Dismantling of an old circuit breaker

Repair or restoration of such devices is not performed. The reason for this is a rather complicated scheme, and at the same time buying new automata will cost inexpensively. Basically, when breakdown in this device, it is simply replaced with a new one with similar characteristics, that is, with the same face value, a class that turns off the ability.

Before dismantling the machine, you must completely de-energize the line that feeds the replaceable device from the network. Sometimes the replacement is carried out under voltage, however, in such cases, only a specialist should be replaced. If the work is carried out without disconnecting electricity, then it should be very attentive and careful, especially if the housing is in very poor condition, as in the photo below.

Typically, the clamping plates are welded with each other, which leads to the impossibility of unscrewing the clamping screw. To make dismantling in such a difficult situation, it is necessary to have certain skills and experience. To simplify the task, you should initially leave the margin of wires in the shield.

If the wire connected to the machine gun was melted, the automatic was burned, then when installing a new car burnt, the plated area of \u200b\u200bthe wire should be completely removed and only the net, the newly stripped lived should be connected - only so you can be confident in reliability. That is, in any case, there must be a stock. If the stock was not and had to connect the burntable wire, the more aluminum as in the photo, then the likely the likelihood is that the contact of the automaton will oppose again, since it has lived that has been subjected to overheating, no longer has the same load capacity and may be more fragile than the whole wire .

Most of the circuit breakers in the electrical switch responds only for some separate line, which feeds, for example, sockets or the lighting of a residential building. Therefore, to de-energize the similar machine is very simple - you need to turn off the introductory packet, which is usually on the staircase in the entrance.

However, it may be necessary to replace the circuit breaker, which is located in front of the meter, is also called an introductory machine. The introductory apparatus, if it is in a Khrushchev or a multi-storey panel house, is also on the stairs in the electrical protection. In private houses, such a device can be 380V, it is also called a three-pole automatic machine. Replacing such an automatic switch is carried out by a specialist, because The introductory machines in the shield are separated, and a considerable fine is faced for the breakdown of the seal.

After de-energizing the network, you need to check using the indicator and make sure that the power is completely disabled. Next, you should choose the necessary screwdriver and promote the clamping screw. After disconnecting, the wires should be pushed to the sides.

In the new shields, the circuit breakers are attached on. If you do dismantling in such a shield, it is much easier. At the bottom of the device there is a hole in which the screwdriver is inserted and pulls down. After removing the bottom latch, pull the bottom of the machine.

However, in many homes there are automatic switches of an old sample that are not attached to the rail, and fixed with a long screw. It is very difficult to remove a device that has these screws closed either bike.

Installing a new protection device

The first thing to do is to replace the machine in the shield is to insert a new circuit breaker in place for the previous one. The process is: we put a latch of the top of the device on the rail and rush the lower part until it stops and click. The next step is work with wires. If necessary, they need to be cleaned, then insert into the clamping holes and clamp the screw. You must always pay attention to the state of the plug-in wires and if there are traces of melting, cutting of the veins, strong strain of the core, then this area needs to be removed and re-clean the wire to connect.

The performance of circuit breakers is checked by special equipment by loading them - checking the current characteristics. Without special equipment, it is simply so not to determine that the thermal or electromagnetic release does not work or do not work in accordance with the stated characteristics. And it turns out that the malfunction of the machine can be detected only when it does not work when necessary - that is, it will be possible to learn about its malfunction only on the consequences of overload or short circuit (the automatic, wiring itself is damaged). That is, you can purchase a new machine with a marriage, put it, it can stand for 10 years, and a person will not suspect of its fault until an emergency in electrical wiring - overload or KZ.

You should also realize that the machine gun of any manufacturer can be with a factory marriage. In enterprises, when several dozens of automata are ordered for a new switchgear, they always conduct them check (loading) before installation, as the product marriage is very often falling, even the best brands.

There are no checks in everyday life, therefore, a redundant protective apparatus must always be installed, which will de-energize the damaged portion of the wiring in the event of a failure of one of the circuit breakers. And it is better for reliability to have an additional introductory automatic machine in the home player, since the machine that stands with the accounting device in the entrance or on the support is located on and, accordingly, it is less sensitive to increasing current. Also, if the machine on the entry in front of the counter is installed outside the room, then its time-current characteristic varies when the temperature changes. For example, the lower the ambient temperature, the greater the current and the response time and time of the thermal release, that is, if one of the machines fails, the wiring will be damaged before the machine will occur before it works.

Important! When replacing the machine to more powerful, it is necessary to be sure that this change will not affect the electrical wiring scheme. Still, if such a replacement is necessary, you should consult with a specialist.

On video, it shows how to replace old circuit breakers in the electrical switch to the new:

At whose expense work is performed

If the device is malfunction, the owners may have questions: who must change the machines in the shield, for a fee or free of charge. So, if we are talking about the introductory device, which is located in front of the counter, then it is a general-purpose property, so the company must acquire and replace it for money that the owners pay every month.

However, it is also important to know at whose expense is the replacement of the rest of the protective equipment. Everything that the meter is located is the property of the owner of this housing, respectively, and buy, and it is necessary to replace independently. Of course, it is possible to replace the circuit breaker with your own hands, but it will be better if a specialist will be engaged.

That's all that I wanted to tell you about how to replace the machine in the shield with your own hands. We hope our step-by-step instruction was useful for you and helped to understand the entire essence of the replacement!

Hello, dear readers and guests of the site "Electrician Notes".

In this article, I want to disassemble a number of reasons that have led an accessible panel in an emergency condition.

If you have the same shield, then after reading the article, I recommend you to immediately check it for such errors and eliminate them until it's too late.

So, three weeks ago I changed the old single-phase induction meter of CO-I449 (1986) on the electronic two-timing SEE-55 (2014). The counter was installed in this driveway.

The scheme of such a shield I described in the article about. In my case, the shield is similar, only compensated for 3 apartments, but by 4.

View from afar.

I will not tell about the replacement of the meter itself, read the following articles on this topic:

The fact is that this accessible shield is in disrepair. I will say honestly, that during the work I myself was scary there.

And now in order.

In my own experience, I will say that the introductory machine will have a rated current 32 (a) or 40 (a).

Machine manufacturer Choose according to your financial capabilities: you can install expensive from ABV or Schneider Electric, and you can do without inexpensive brands like IEK, EKF or TDM.

2. Replacement of group automata

Currently, group vehicles of type AE-1031 (single-pole) are installed. They, so to speak, are already morally outdated, but the matter is not even in this. They are not very reliable, when they load them (), a large amount is not tested, especially on thermal protection.

3. Get rid of aluminum wires

Currently, the aluminum wires with a cross section of up to 16 square meters are prohibited for use in the residential sector (PUE, clause 7.1.34), so the installation must be carried out only with copper wires ().

The introductory wires from the terminals of the highway to group machines can be made by copper wire PV-1 4 square meters or 6 square meters. You can use others

(Besides ).

4. Replacement of the apartment zero shoe

An old zero block must be replaced with a zero isolated tire under a DIN rail (Shni), for example, such.

5. Additionally (optional)

If the first four points are mandatory for execution, this item is more recommendatory. I suggested the hostess at least to conduct a visual survey of the electrical wiring of the apartment (general condition, heating, etc.), ranging from group machines on a storey shield and ending with sockets, switches, distribution boxes. Also, it would not be bad that are made of old aluminum wires.

6. Connection Scheme of a Floor Shield

Here is a new connection scheme on a flood shield for one apartment - a minimum of attachments, everything is simple and reliable.

It turns out something like that.

In the above scheme, it is desirable to establish introductory and group Uzo ().

P.S. The owner of the apartment and its neighbors was explained about all the above. Unfortunately, no one called me back. A few days ago, I accidentally passed past this shield and did not see any changes ...

158 Comments for recording "Emergency state of the accessible panel. We disassemble and eliminate the reasons "

    We still have no thunder, the man does not cross. It is very bad that we are so negligent to your own security. Relatives have a floor shield in a similar state, show them this post-like a guide to action.
    Thanks for the article, I think for many it is relevant.

    But what then the section of the main phase wires and the cross-section of the main Pen? And what should they be a cross section?

    The proposed zero shine - rubbish the screws of the nifiga do not hold the wire, turn out, while broken down the threads.

    It is better than old good china Soviet type, or modern vague, on a Dean Rake.

    thanks for the works. We have new articles

    Jora, here not only "Thunder is not born." Many believe that the recommendations of builders, installers and other specialists are the character of "dilute for money." Thanks to the hectrian "specialists". One lady, which I was perverted in the selection of lamps and lamps for the winter garden (aesthetics of lamps, the necessary light wave for photosynthesis and beautiful color reproduction, moisture protection, dear ceiling and other charms), shouted to me that I am trying to replace six chandeliers to her with one lamp. These were long fights, I finished the object with the fourteenth brigade of the masters. Now we are the best friends. But when a person starts talking about safety and savings, then you often hear that I am trying to earn them. I say I'm not trying, earning, but it should be profitable.

    Contradictive article)) and about the tire, and about a one-pole on entering, and about PV-1, which is swollen bending in a limited space ...

    Monsieur Serge, it is possible and a single-pole introductory machine, you can and two-pole (read PUE) - What is the problem? And I wrote about the tire as an example. You can use any tire, even a conventional copper tire with a bolted connection. The flexibility in the shield is not required, so I chose PV-1. You can choose a multi-core PV-3 (according to modern Pugv), of course, applying tips. Below in the text of the article, I specified a link to the table on the selection of cables and wires, where the recommended brands are indicated.

    Unfortunately in the absolute majority of houses building up to 2000, you can easily find shields in a similar condition. When to do something in such a shield - you work as a sapper on a minefield. At the expense of the application of the shine - I usually, if possible, squeezes not one core under the screw, and bending the core halve, then the wire does not rotate under the screw and the contact is reliable.

    This is what ... My friend went to change the meter to the customer and when he opened the door of the storey shield, the shield literally began to fall out of a special niche in the wall. A friend began to keep it, so that he did not fall finally, while he was waiting with horror that she was "slamming." Then he took a mobile phone with one hand and began to call the control company (the electrician from the Criminal Code was familiar to him, so the phone number was). And after 20 minutes. Electricians arrived and secured the shield. And the acquaintance all this time held him. That's it.

    I have gas stoves in my house, highlighted power per apartment 3 kW. The introductory machine will be forced to put 25 A, because Paucker usually stands on 25 A. only to anyone and things are not affected by such shields. Here are people with us (when replacing wiring in the apartment) and put introductory automata and 40 A at 16 square meters. mm. Aluminum phase wire. And they do not think that there may be neighbors in the phase of 3-4 apartments. Yes, even rejection is done in such shields. Is it turns on to the overhaul of the house replacement of phase conductors for copper when entering the house and for risers, as well as the installation of new circuit breakers and the grounding system TN-C-S in such shields? With this allocated power to apartments will remain the same (after all, the introductory cable in the entrance of a larger cross section is elongated)? Has anyone come across a capital replacement of wiring in old houses and can give me my answer to my questions? Thanks in advance.

    I have long wanted to write here ... I wanted to climb the author on something ..- I don't work, all competently. With the point of view of the colleague, you are a colleague! - You have a lot of like-minded people) I really want a separate topic- "Players of electricians", i.e. those situations that come across at work and do not find explanations in theory

    Yes, Dmitry, you still have a "Bobby" panel. Although do not envy you. I had to dig in such shields (it was to dig and either otherwise) that you compare your profession with the profession of mine. However, not the right movement and ...............! As a micro surgeon with a scalpel, so and you with your tool in that shield. In the sweat breaks. In this way, I remember, one hundred years, probably, no one looked down. Poutine, dried flies and cockroaches, who are neither how to run FIG. Catch.
    And about the cross section of the wires. And in the houses of the new building there is an absurd. The introductory to the shield is headed by PV-1 at 6kv.mm., lintels between the automata with the same wire, and the 3x10kv.mm removal to email.

    Alexander fully agrees this shield still a fairy tale

    And let's share the best creations of the LCA montstruses)))))))))

    And how did you pull the current there?
    We also had shields in a deplorable state, since December 2010, there were all the electrics.
    House of type II-68-01, year of construction ~ 1975th, 16 floors, 1 entrance.

    I also believe that the shield in the photo is very different. In our whole city, almost all shields are much more terrible, sometimes you just don't want to climb (electricians from housing and communal services). You go to change the counter as a war - read the prayer to read. However, what to do? Money does not allocate, because they are allegedly no. Even insidious packets do not want to replace with cheap machines. I suggested the energy at least zeros from packeting to discard, so as not to explode. Machines After the counters, the tenants should be changed, as a rule, are also not going - they hang on the forty years, they do not even always turn off, what's the protection here. On this occasion, tenants say: Well, you do not forget to change the toilet, why don't you think about security - who agrees, and who sends.
    In general, you need and shields must be changed and changed, because you cannot withstand the load wires. In the village on the half of the fuses of the beetles hang, so now the automata are constantly knocked out, which energy-free hung near the general-purpose counters. And another attack: the heating season ran out, the hot water was turned off - waterfronts began to buy in stores. Until while driving, but I feel it will begin soon.

    "And let's share the best creations of Milk Housing LCD)))))))))))))))" - Yuri, mostly creation in the shields belong to the tenants themselves - they have been screwed up and wires for many years with their passages and the wires threw so far, while all the fuck do not enhance, and you will not understand (((((((

    Comment from 01.05.2014 at 22:15
    Oleg, we have capitalized the house, it seems to be 45 years old, it stretched completely new copper cables, and on the risers, and from Sada in the basement to all entrances, packets were replaced by the introductory bipolar automata (IUEK) on 32a, replaced the garlic wiring. I do not remember exactly the cross section of the standing cable, but that all by the mind is a fact. The branch on the risers is made through the piercing clamps - beauty! But, bypassing PUE requirements, left a four-wire system (TN-C). I was interested in: why? They say, and so much money threatened a lot. True, such an overhaul has become possible only thanks to the older house - her all the bosses of the city is afraid. Now, if I tell about TN-C-S and that it was obliged to do, then I am sure that she will achieve that she threw her the fifth wire and killed a ground in the lawn. It is a pity, but there are few such right people in the country.

    Hello. In principle, everything is correct and visual. One question. How will the controllers from the power supply organization be treated to the appearance of a switching apparatus (automaton) with open contacts to the meter? Maybe the overall introductory AV need to put in boxing and seal?

    Thank you for the article.
    However, the question is: why set the Australian in the shield? Why not put AVDT instead of AV + UZO?. If the screw clamps from this brass-powder rubbish are bad, then throw off who can, a link to good.

    "To comply with the selectivity of its response in relation to the introductory devices of the protection installed in SERVA 0.4 (KV)."

    And if you put yourself an impact machine in a 6 mm on copper panel (replaced by magitral to av), say on 40a or 8 mm and 50a? In general, if you do not coordinate these currents with the power supply organization, what threatens the tenant?

    Faces a fine with any check or "God" of an emergency situation, and you can fully entrust you for you - I came across such an opportunity in practice, but I will not tell about it - I will not tell about it - a long story, just know that the nominal empty machine sets you Energy supplying organization, depending on the highlighted power to the house, cross-section of the main wires and the standards of protection devices in the Worm House.

    Dmitriy! And if the flots such "beautiful" shields, where to send them?

    I am in the mail.

    I work in the accident, I think I will acquire used by the soapy, to capture the masterpieces. Let's the way where you can look? Where are the masterpieces send?

    Hello! Copper wire VVG 6 squares to a trunk (riser in the shield) to make sip clarifying clips. I would like to hear your opinion. THX.

    I somehow later returned from work. I went into the staircase, on the first floor, how usually the lighting did not work, and to the same elevator stood with the open doors somewhere on the upper floors, so I had to stand a little in silence. And in this silence, I heard "hissing", I didn't have to look for a long time, "hissing" came from an access point, looked inside, and though, "Little welding machine" worked there. He knocked on the first door, the mistress was published, I briefly told her about what he saw, outlined the consequences and went to the floor. But this sparking did not give me peace, and I decided to inform. First thought at 12 o'clock in the morning - and where to call? What is the phone number? And I didn't find anything better how to call in 911, I told everything as it is, as maybe, after the service operator, I began to offer me to call or there. After that, I had a desire to do something further.
    The fire did not happen, but did not eliminate the problem. After some time, apparently according to the program, electricians came and changed the metering devices and at the same time wiring. While all new.
    So in Russia everything is done, you want to help - take a screwdriver of Passatia and go Chini myself, or wait for a fire.

    Do not take Pasalati and repair yourself (otherwise you can get into money), but to find out the emergency service number and call there. As a rule on the 1st floor in the subferences, such information should be, well, or in the telephone directory.

    Hello, yesterday gathered a shield for the bath, everything almost did, as you told, but there was no single-core cable in the store, there was blue and green, bought 3-wire 6 mm. It was very difficult to divide, of course, because he is a guest, the blue cable has turned out more, I am a jumper on the phase on automata and did.
    For the bath took the inlet automata 25 A, the UZO by 40 A 30 mA, 10 and on the light, 2 to 16 on the socket and the stock one. Machines and Lengrand Nepro. I can send a photo on soap. Whether I did everything right, well, except the color of course.

    Sergey to answer you the choice of protection devices you need to know the sections of the exhaust lines on lighting and sockets. Photos of the shield can send me an email.

    Yuri: Share ka share the best creations of electrical utilities from housing and communal services, and I will then you like a Master of Electrician Housing and Communal Services Let's find the opportunity to calculate how much they work.
    Oleg: Changes with Kapitalka everything from the person (shield) and up to the automata on the apartment. We usually pull PV3 * 25 These are risers from the village to the top floor without break, if the entrance is far from the village, then PV3 * 35 in 9-storey buildings. In 5-storey houses, PV3 * 16 is stretched there as a rule, well, or 3 * 25 if from the hand far away. The only thing that residents make it buy this counters.

    Sergey, with capital repairs we made a replacement for VL-0.4 (KV), including. If briefly, the project on the 5-storey Khrushchev was the following. For each entrance from SER, we stretched the line (risers) by aluminum APF (5x16), then in each apartment installed an introductory machine C32, after it the electric meter (you correctly noticed that the consumers themselves acquired themselves) and 2 C16 groups. I plan to write about it with more detailed explanations and nuances, but there is no free time.

    We only press copper with kapitals. Although Lum 16 squares can also be.

    Sergey, or who in the topic, tell me, and the need to replace the cable from the TP to the hand of the house who determines. Loads have increased over recent years. With overhaul, everything in the risers will be replaced, and whether the booking cables will be withstanding, those that are land. Is it taken into account in state structures that make up projects for coaronts of homes?

    Then the TP should be modernized.

    No, this is not taken into account. A certain power is always highlighted on the house and it is limited to the introductory protection devices. Increased fuses less frequent circuit breakers. In general, this is the zone of the balanced disposal of the power grid, we at least.

    Admin: I have a small advice for you. We put on one insulator two zero tanks. We connect them with a piece of wire, so it turns out a large area of \u200b\u200bcontact and the wire under two screws is clamped. More reliable, especially considering that wiring from Luma.

    And tell me why instead of the "packet" put Va, and not VN?

    The price of the price will be more than Wa. And I do not know where how but in our city there is a registered position. Most likely for these reasons. Yes, and the counter is also needed.

    I can not agree to the load switch of the switching device without the function of protection, in more simply speaking the same chopper in modular execution, from the point of view of protection AV reliable.

    Dmitry, you wanted to write an article about the Uzo in the TN-C system ...
    I could not find. According to the rules, it is prohibited, of course ... but

    Where else to connect the grounding wire in the shield from the washing or anywhere as in your scheme above for outlets and lighting?

    Nikolai, instead of the DIFAVTOMAT instead of the Uzo, and the grounding in the shield is not yet connected, although if you have a fundamentally see how you are grounded the bath can be easier for it

    Nikolay, if your residential building is not translated into the TN-C-S system, then you do not have a separate main maintenance conductor, it is combined with a working zero and called Pen. What to do in such a situation and where to connect the conductor re from the washing machine - read.

    ... just in the topic)))
    The neighbor's neighbor also connected the washing machine ...
    I went then looked - the phase through the automatic, zero to the apartment zero tire, and the third on the body of a storey panel under the nut.
    Crime?

    Nikolai, and 4-wired highway or 5-wired?

    Nikolai. Crime there is no. There is just a danger that in the case of a zero wire break if it is Pen, an unslapted potential will come on the body of the instrument housing. I usually do not connect the ground wire, (if the house is not 5-wiring) and leave it to the reconstruction, and protect it Differ. Protection. Believe the experience of the Julkovsky electrician, a zero break is a very big reality.

    If the Zhekovsky electrician Sergey has nick junta, then hello from Andrei Ingener

    Andrei Ingener Hello from Junta (Sergey Panagushin)

    Dmitry, what a highway I don't know ..
    House 40 years old. The system is most likely TN-C.
    Apparently 3 phases and neutral - 4-wire.
    I let me wash through the Uzo with a leak of 10 mA.
    The third wire "HOW".

    Sergey, are you talking about the breakdown of general neutral on a storey shield?
    I'm not a pro)) but I went to school))
    Is it really possible to burn? Well this is how to overload ...
    And what then are entrance rental machines?
    Or machine guns in apartments ...

    Nikolay, crime there is no. They just zaid the body of the machine. According to the current rules, it is prohibited for the existing rules - now you need to ground. If you have a TN-C, then do not connect the re-conduction before reconstruction. About how to properly translate a residential building from the TN-C system on TN-C-S read (explained in detail in detail).

    Zero break - easily! Reasons for this much: late or complete lack of technical solvent (most often weakening contact compounds), electrician errors (breaking the zero main wire when performing any repair or installation work), initially incorrect installation (it is necessary to make a trunk zero if possible The last floor is not discontinuous, and branches on the floors were performed using special pads, as on the example in the article), uneven load on phases, etc.

    Therefore, the scope of zero is not at all myth, but quite a harsh reality - to protect it recommended single-phase relay UZM-51M or.

    Thank you. And another question))
    I want to put a 2-pin automatic instead of the packet in the shield.
    And what is the difference 2p and 1r + n?

    ... and what is better to put in your opinion?

    No sometimes manufacturers indicate labeling and some no

    Nikolay, it is better to install a two-pole vehicle 2p with protection in both poles. A two-pole automaton 1p + n protection is made only on the phase. In principle, you can install any, because The current in both conductors will be the same, but 2p is more reliable in terms of what suddenly for some reason protection will not work in one pole.

    Changed counters in the village in the north of Moscow. At the same time, the input was changed from the post to the wall from the old aluminum on the SIP.
    Houses of four apartments. In each apartment there is a box in which automata and counters are installed.
    And now yummy - all these boxes were made of wood!
    As still not burned the entire village is not known.
    Given that in several apartments when trying to open the door of the cabinet, sparks were poured ...

    Hello Dmitry, did not know where to write, I write to the topic similar on the subject.
    A few questions torment me, I will try to describe in detail the problem.

    There is a cable, copper 4 / 2.5 mm, three phases and zero.
    You need to connect two single-phase heater guns, each 3300 watts.

    Question N1: -

    Is it possible to connect one gun on the phase A and on zero, the second gun on the phase B and on zero when the wires are 2.5mm2?
    The C phase will have several lamps with a total capacity of ~ 200VATT;

    N2 question: -

    What approximately the current will be in zero wire with guns included on the two phases (does it disagree?, Because I understand the skew phase is not small)

    N3 question: -

    I beg explain in your own words how to roughly calculate the current in the zero wire of the three-phase network, for example, when you turn on only one of the guns 3300 watts, or two cannons in different phases of each 3300 watts.

    I understand a lot, but I can't catch up in a zero phase and current in zero wire.

    Andrei, as I understand it is not worth it on this problem. In zero wire there will be no more current in any one of the phases, for everything is balanced there. With a certain conditions, it can go beyond the permissible-powerful UPS, various RC-LC load But in everyday life it rarely happens.
    Zero wire is needed to equilibrate the voltages by phases, to create 220 volts and as a protective replace conductor.
    Intelligent You can put the machine 4 pole and divide N on PE to it.

    Eduard, thanks for the answer.
    About zero understood.
    And about balancing the voltage between the phases there is such an observation.
    I live in the village. The house is recorded in three phases, but the voltage on the lines with the arrival of winter twisted: 196V / 210V / 230V.
    Although I spread all the load in the house evenly in all three phases.
    That's how to understand it, I do not know.
    Suppose someone from the neighbors per line loaded, such as electrical heaters. But why then the zero wire did not balance the voltage remains incomprehensible ...

    Eduard, good evening.

    1. You can.
    2. The current in the zero wire in the three-phase four-wire system is equal to the vector sum of the currents of all phases. Once again, focusing on the expression "vector sum". For example, you have a symmetric load (currents in all phases are the same). In this case, the current in the zero wire will be zero or have a close value to zero. If the load on the phases is different, the current appears in the zero wire, but its value does not exceed the current value in the maximum loaded phase.
    3. It is easier to measure how to calculate, because for accurate calculation you need data not only of consumer capacities, but also all values \u200b\u200bof currents, linear and phase stresses, drive angles between the current and voltage of each phase, etc. I recommend to read the textbook on TO, there these moments are described in very detailed with examples and calculations.

    Dmitry, thank you for the answer and understanding, what I wrote in the topic.
    All the best you.

    Hello! And why and for what the Uzo on the rated current is greater than the automatic protecting it, and not on the turn?

    Sorry. But alas of such shields thousands. And the employees of the HEKA more accurate their owners are mostly one intent and he is in a crisp equivalent. At work to me, such shields on mobile residential vogon are coming. I repaid them in the treucilla. Carefully and aesthetically assembled scheme is like coaching in the operating room

    Hello, valuable admin! First of all, hunting thank you for such a cognitive site.
    I gave me a small problem, in my raw shield for 4 sq.:
    1. Not one apartment is not an introductory machine.
    2. Agency for my sq. After the meter, there are three cars in two workers
    One, as I understood the reserve, two wires come from the raised shield in the apartment
    Phase zero, phase zero. And it turns out to be twisted in one carob all the apartment wiring! Although I and Nemitter electrician but for some reason it scares me!
    3. I think the automata from the raised shield, and install the apartment shield in the apartment on 4 modules (automaton) for each room your automatic.
    Can you please tell me how to make it possible ???
    Is it possible to leave old automata in the raised shield and put them in a kv to put 4 cars ????
    Or have to have through the ENERGOSBIT to shoot a seal from the counter and with load-made celement
    New cable (phase zero) on the apartment shield ??

    Thanks for the comment, only the counter should not be changed to me, the spent the owners of the KV his
    He replaced the new, but Vidmo Installation performed as I understand the uncooked gramist electric bellarge. The only problem now is that the counter is sealing and in order to make me a new introductory bank in a kV from it, you need to break the seal.
    Tell me which instance need to contact this question?
    It is not necessary to do this independently.

    To remove the seal, you need to appeal to an energy sales company. On the payment for email Energy there are their phones. An introductory machine must be supplied to the CCM, this is their area of \u200b\u200bresponsibility. But it is better when you come to buy an automatic machine yourself and "agree" with an electrician so that he put you your automatic with a nominal 40a. The regular one is unlikely to exceed 25a and put a better two-pole machine, I would even say a two-pole. And then there are cases you know

    Smokers shield shorter.

    But the off town looks like nothing at first glance.

    Good article! Listen to the article, change the wires and automata in such a shield - this is your safety. The case of life: I did not look at my own same shield (although I knew the deplorable state of affairs - the same as at the beginning of the article one in one). Here I am changing once a rosette - rushed randomly (sparks, thermal wave and saturated protective safety specials) - And at least hens - what he is that it is not))))
    After that, called - changed. By the way, they helped save (put instead of the DiffAvtomat, who asked at the beginning, Uzo + automatic) - for ABB it happened cheaper.
    Thanks to the author.

    Hello. Tell me, please. Here in the pictures you have connected "breads" to the phase wires in the shield, and there are other options and so that it was thought to use the OR-6 clamp in the rubber glove, but one kasse 9th floor and phase wires stupidly in the air chatted if Screenshots and doors of the shield can be fed to theoretically hook. Here is another example which thread isolated clamps but light so that no "crackers" with them under the tension hemorrhoids

    Such a state in the inter-storey-branded dowry from the USSR-blinded, as from which it fell, tenants and this joy. In my house, the situation and faster, because Stationary plates of Lysva and melted themselves, and the wires / contacts melted. And my branch, perhaps, was the only one, where there was no coagulation of isolation, because From the very beginning, everything was compressed, and with prurabs, and with sleeves. And the sockets, however, certainly suffered, not only that Lyumin, and even old and non-alternative at the beginning of the outlet. The outlet outlets were easy - a normal fork with a normal cable was stuck once, everything remained only through extension cords to a different number of places, but already euro-type.

    Michael:
    08/10/2015 at 02:28.
    What do I do not fit? They can safely connect under the voltage and without all sorts of gloves.

    Good evening. C pushed with similar shields, asked to make tramp and prevention. It was wildly surprised by many shields. It was Akhtung)) decided to correct the emergency and gradually redo everything. I see the terminals isolated on a din rail (from above in the photo), I can not understand how they are connected there, because four wires should sit on one bus, but under different bolts, how was it originally or something wrong, tell me?

    Sergey, before reworking the zero scheme for each apartment passed through a batch switch to the counter. Naturally, the "packet" was dismantled in the process of modernization, and a two-pole machine was installed in its place. Thus, zero for each apartment is taken by a separate wire from the main zero and goes first on a two-pole machine, and from it already on the counter. From the meter zero goes to the zero tire N. them in the shield three, i.e. For each apartment, its zero tire (they do not need to be connected to each other). In the upper right corner, you can see the terminals - they were installed because of the short wires going to the apartment, simply not enough of the length of the apartment wires and had to install additional power terminals, both at the phase and zero. If wires have a sufficient stock, they should be connected directly to group machines and zero tires.

    The misleading you introduced that the photo and the scheme in the article differ slightly. The diagram has two group vehicles on the apartment, and in the photo - it is only one. They can be two, and three. The essence of the scheme does not change from this.

    Recently I saw sparking with the effect of the glow in the village on the first floor of my house (the house is 16-storey). The glow is behind one of the current transformers (they are most likely for counters), there are during the start of elevators from the place, and so nothing special.)) It began the other day, even video did on this topic.
    Not really there already zero slowly burns (although unlikely)?

    Motobiker1995, and where exactly rides? At the junction of the current transformer and case? Can you send a video - it's interesting to see?

    Tell me how to replace or still have the opportunity to find the zero tire an isolated old sample? Just in the shield there is a need to replace only and, and there is no place there at all. One tire goes into two apartments, the second is still on two. One wire from the meter and three of the apartment comes to the bus (respectively, two wires under one clamp), according to PUE, it is so spelled out. This is how to solve this problem, the terminal articles are sort of like an option? Thanks in advance. Photos of shields sent you to email ( [Email Protected])

    Well, right my shield in the photo. For 20 years of life, in his apartment replaced the entire inner strapping with aluminum for copper, a batch switch, automatic machines for 2 circles. Automatic machines burned down the lower contacts due to poor contact in jumpers made from wire. Probal decided Installation of the W-shaped jumper from brass. And on the eve of the NG, the local authority brought a notice to replace the meter. I made it my own hands. After reading this article, I thought about replacing machine guns to modern

    Why is your own, sho for proper campaigns !!! ??? Such flaps in the USSSSR-Millen and the car.

    I once called me to check me why the machines in such a shield are knocked out by themselves, I came, I was terrified, I decided to measure tension jumps, then the probe on the tester and evaporated! Dangerous business These shields, all on snot, for frequent no protection and directly, all redid. Be careful!

    What are the probes evaporated from measuring tester voltage?

    From the fact that the phase goes to the machine and zero on the frame of which they are screwed.

    And what, from this arc arose and the probe evaporated? You at least do not frighten, and then the people will raise tension to measure.

    I say, be careful!

    ... He fought his head for a long time ... In general, he left the answer ... (c)

    There are often the probe on store shields, then dumping evaporates. In old electrical panels, you need extreme caution, it is not necessary to rely on, not on the machine guns, not on isolation, even on the panel with a screw is connected not zero, but a phase! And immediately inspect the main wires, recently from the "nut" of such a wire, shook the screw at a distance of 3mm from the storey zero, one awesome movement and fireworks I strained 2 apartments.

    Tell us in detail how when measuring the voltage, the probe evaporates! The people have the right to know the truth. All!

    "MotoBiker1995, and where exactly rides? At the junction of the current transformer and case? You can send a video - it's interesting to see? "
    I didn't look here for a long time, but I will answer: I used to connect with the transformer, I won everything there. Video will later send him how to find him.
    Transformers are worth the counters.

    "Tell me in detail how when measuring the voltage, the probe evaporates! The people have the right to know the truth. All! "
    Yes, you are athe atheist ...))) go with an electrician, you can see the moment when the probe testers and dumping evaporates in old shields.
    If you have not seen something, you did not hear, did not feel - it does not mean that this allegedly "no" ...

    This is not an answer. Why should I walk with an electrician? They themselves wrote themselves and disperse, if you don't know, do not torment the keyboard. Extreme case-drunken electrician, blind electrician, illiterate electrician, bad and twisted wires of probes do not speak, it is written on another site.
    Another voltmeter, any, in normal hands with a normal head, does not spark on top, does not dig, does not create sparks and does not become relevant.

    The most interesting thing in such a shield will begin when the contact of the terminal holds the phase will weaken and starts to warm up. And on top there is another phase wire.

    No less interesting will be in a similar situation with nozzles on one pint, but with two apartments from different phases.

    And what may happen in this case?

    I'm going to remake the wiring in the apartment of the old panel house with aluminum to copper. But the approach to my meter from the entrance still will remain aluminum. How can I replace this wire? How to formulate a request to the board of the housing department, which is responsible for the wiring? Can I hire an electrician herself so that he replaced this cable? Or can it make only an electrician with whom it cooperates?

    Julia, this wire is part of the riser and will be replaced with the overhaul of wiring in the house.

    Julia, however, you can do it yourself, or rather with the help of a hired electrician. In the housing and explain what you want to replace the feed wires from the main line to the accounting device, and that at a certain date and time you will need to turn off the voltage from this riser.

    Good day! Yes, colleagues opening a storey shield of the old house at least to some extent already preparing morally. But when you open a floor shield of a five-year-old at home here is certainly nonsense. It seems that the scheme is pasted, and you turn off the machine to understand that it is here for removing the eyes. And most importantly, the wires of the wires are not calculated on the rated load. Even in the project is not enough to cross section. To whom you will not turn your hands.

    On weekends faced a nuisance. The apartment disappeared in the apartment.
    Caused an electrician from the Criminal Code and it turned out that the phase wire on entering the counter
    It was badly tightened. Of course he pulled everything, but hinted that everything should be changed.

    House of the 90th year of release, all on aluminum, 4 wires. There is no protective ground.
    Only in the kitchens, to one socket, the 3-wire wires are connected.
    And then, this socket, more precisely, the place for it with the wires was found under the layer of mastic during repair. On the shield, it also was not connected.
    The wires were simply laid in the shield behind. In the end, they connected there a washing machine.

    But that's not the point. After the board of the electrician, I began to look for information how to do it. And it turned out to be here on this excellent site, with this excellent article.

    Everything seems to be clear, but I would like to clarify some points.
    - In the article Pen, the wire through the machine and the meter is headed for a zero isolated tire under a DIN rail. I now have a removal from the inter-storey Pen wire is rigidly fastened to the shield housing.
    How to be? After all, this shield serves two apartments.

    Julia is Vladimir Admin (Dmitry? As far as I learned) Tomorrow I will try to make a photo and throw what the electrics should do the ECC or UK. Paul Judging by the snapshot you did not have anything that the horse was not lying ... And I wiping out the battered))) I have not died for a long time. And the shield must be grounded (during the construction of houses in the USSR, steel wire 6 mm is usually welded) and reinstalled. And the earth stretched with TP. So only you decide how the electrical wiring will be held in the apartment. Those. Zero and land will always be separate or united. Only in the shield you need to display the wires of the appropriate color, so that the doubts were not called, well, they must be connected in accordance. And in this "noodle" it is difficult to understand who is Hu. In email The plate (in the outlet) can easily be swapped by places zero and protective for (zero, land) in apartments on store shields everything is connected.

    depresses another. What communications system we do not take - everywhere the vessels of the wires, cortic twists, etc. Boxes are decorated with opened lids, etc. . Conclusion - very low maintenance culture everywhere. As a result, when a specialist, similar to the author's author, proposes to bring order, is perceived as a "money extortionist". Sad

    yes, you do not need to formulate. The approach to the meter goes, most likely, from a traffic jam or machine to your apartment. There is a small plot of cable. In extreme cases, it can be referred to as indicated in the article that there is no less than 16 squares to bring aluminum residential space to residential premises. The only thing that such work should be carried out by an authorized electrician, since it should partition your counter after replacing the wire and, accordingly, must have the right to

    to the previous Comment I want to add that if you replace the wiring from the shield to the meter, it is worth installing before meters an introductory machine

    In Pue in Pen com. Do not put the device, and you offer?

    Hello the author and residents of this beautiful blog!
    I ask you to help me. The meter replacing time has come on a storey shield. I apply a photo. The packet burned out and everything is connected directly, even before my unfinished this house, and it was 13 years ago. I was falling apart. In the odnushku, the neighbors put the C63 automatic machine, two in the two-room service! Introductory cables. It costs C40 on a phase wire ... walked all shorter.
    In the Criminal Code of Energy, a young boy, can not even tell me the highlighted power ... I forgot to say, Al.Plita we have three AB 32 + 16 + 16 stove, light, outlets.
    Wiring in the apartment has not changed, Lyumin from birth, help the action plan. I understand it is necessary to do two taps, phase-zero, and ??? Automatic or Diff? What the counter is better to purchase? Next with automata, leave the same, or reduce, in view of the old age luminous? I will not do, but I want to know the actions when repairing. There is no intelligent special specialists in the hipe, I tried to communicate when replacing lamps in the corridor ...
    Something like that…

    Here is another concept

    The whole floor is on the same phase, is it normal?

    Abnormally, though. And it is still an abnormal than the head of the wires, which is in the shield, nightmare.

    Saming with you and do not argue ...

    Something over time in the blog, the number coincides, and the clock with moments, no ...

    Roman, and who argues? So, light bulk on the themes close to the electrician, and only. Yeah ???

    Surfactant, not at all, I'm waiting for Dmitry to give good advice to eliminate this dimension)))

    You are waiting for Dmitry will give you all Puete points and so on. regulations? The Council one is to turn off the risers, crop all go and make new wires, competently and beautiful.

    In general, surfactant rights, I would have done if the neighbors were supported by such an idea. And then often the opinion converges in the phrase "it works, why to climb and change something." The easiest option, instead of how recently, it is customary to be called "exploding" packets, it is suggested, or an introductory machine or a load switch. I am for the first option.

    If the Criminal Code cannot tell you the highlighted power on the apartment, then the choice of the nominal remains yours. It is enough will be a single-pole automaton at 50 (a). The cross section from the highway to the machine and from the machine to the meter and the exhaust machines, perform a copper wire with a cross section of 16 square meters. Then set three automaton on DIN rail. Installation of UZO or DIFAVTOMATOMATOs, as well as any automation (voltage relay, digital voltmeter, etc.) Consider later, because the main thing is to choose the correct machine ratios for all lines, and for this you need to accurately determine the cross section of exhaust lines in the apartment .

    By zero. There are several schema options here, depending on the selected devices. Let's discuss later. According to the meter, direct inclusion with a rated current 0-60 (a) or 0-80 (A). The number of tariffs is optionally, but it will probably probably be more profitable. Manufacturer - Mercury or Energy Momer, but it is not fundamentally.

    In principle, the fact that the entire floor is "hanging" in the same phase, it is not scary, although the scheme shows the power from different phases. Apparently, when the installation was made, the distribution of loads took not in the apartment, but a substantive. The main thing is that through your floor there are all three phase highways, which means that in the case of the overload of some phase, it is always possible to reconnect to a less loaded phase.

    Dmitry, thank you for left me alone with my problem.
    On the distribution of the phases and the choice of the counter, everything understood, non-procurement.
    About wire cross section in 16 squares, is it probably a typo? Probably talking about 6k?
    I did not understand about a single-pole machine on entering ... why not a two-pole?
    And what characterization (A / B / C / D) should it have?
    Protection relay, before the counter should be put?
    By section of exhaust lines in the apartment: light-2, sockets-2.5, stove-6 (all luminous).
    By the way, in the initial message, I wrote that I have three cars 32-16-16, I was mistaken, I would be faithful to 40-16-16.
    There is still such a question, due to the impossibility of repairing repair in the apartment at the moment, is it possible to drink from the stove. If yes, what is needed for this, create a mini shield in the kitchen?
    And immediately a question about grounding, you know everywhere that it is impossible to ground to the shield. But if I do not confuse (three wires come on the stove), the stove is grounded to the shield.

    From the stove wanted to put the washer, microwave and kettle.

    If in turns, you can, if immediately it will be too much. As for the Earth-similar picture in my house / apartment, for the slab, the Earth is taken from the shield, but the wire is an untouched, in contrast to zeros, which are disconnected by the daisfactory vn.
    From the same shield and at the CM took the conditional land, also in an unconfected.

    There is no difference, which is turned off "Earth" or not, the fact remains the fact that you have a grounding system TN-C and in fact, this is not grounding, but a zero, about whose disadvantages I told in the article about. If only on the floors does not go a separate rod! This can be easily convicted at this, carefully examined the floor shields and lie at home.

    About the machine 50 (a) and the cross section of 16 square meters is not a typo. For clarity, we put the table (see below).

    Single-pole automaton because the TN-C system, which means to tear the combined N and the replacement is not recommended for the purpose of security (prohibited by the rules). Unless again it is confirmed that it is not a separate rod of re!

    In machine guns, you can install C, on departing in, but again, Ideally, you need to know the currents of the KZ ,. Because it is possible for selectivity, a version with a characteristic C for all machines will be performed.

    Install the voltage relay after the meter, and otherwise you may not sign an act of commissioning the accounting device. Here.

    I don't consider the question about the power supply from the line of the electric stove, here it is still necessary to deal with the above.

    Dmitry, surfactant hello. I will be happy to continue our conversation.
    By section, I apply a photo, I have a suspicion that the site cuts the quality of the photo, but in my opinion it is even so you can see that on the left of the wire thinner. When measured, I used not only my wires, but also the lines of neighbors. No errors. One diameter 1.6, two to 1.8, and 2.8. The micrometer is not, but a caliper with an error of 0.05, without problems shows on one of the water wires 1.6.

    Forgot to attach photos.

    About the automatic and cross section of B16 squares, understood. About the relay after the meter, I understood.

    About the Phase-zero loop, from 8do 10 wish. I can now master such expenses, I am a mortgage.
    The empirical method can be done yet?

    The bathroom was welded to some kind of corner, stuck out of the wall. Maybe there is earth?

    The novel, your scheme is small and difficulty, but in the Admin scheme at the beginning of the topic, it is excellent that there is also a phase and zero two-pole, for example, 06/21 and 03/23, just not marked normally as a single product.
    Your Rush may well sit on the reinforcement of the house, or a tire coming around the riser, and for sure there is a land there. And this is already enough for security, so thought then. As far as the land is preserved, it is necessary to check, but it is hardly different.
    As for the cross section, there was aluminum and 2.0, and 2.5 mm in early time, 2.0 was drawn to lighting, 2.5- outlets, and was it.

    Roman, what is this office, which for measuring the loop phase-zero asks 8-10 thousand?! With such pace, I would have long been a millionaire. There, in fact, it is necessary to make 3-4 measurements at the farthest points, a maximum of about 1000 rubles will turn out.

    In machine guns. You have in the shield installed automata with rates of 40-16-16. Considering the cross sections of aluminum wires (6-2.5-2 sq.m.) and the currents of the conditional transport of automata, it is necessary to establish the nominal 25-16-10 (a).

    So, today we have automaton 50 (a) and exhaust machines 25, 16 and 10 (a). Well, since the PFO does not work out, I would have installed the characteristic C, and on the outgoing V. I will explain. Not knowing, CW currents are difficult to make a choice according to the characteristic, but given the old highways, aluminum wires and the existing state of electrical equipment, it is better to progress and install exhaust machines with a characteristic in, because Toki KZ in your case may be small.

    Next, it is necessary to resolve the issue with RCD or DIFAVTOMATS. I would do as follows. On the sockets of its UzO 25 (a), 30 (mA), and on the slab and the lighting of its UZO 63 (a), 30 (mA). Alternatively, each line instead of machine guns can be installed, it is at your discretion. Then their nominal settings will be 25, 16 and 10 (a), and leakage currents 30 (MA).

    On grounding, but rather rewarding. There is nothing to change anything until the reconstruction in the house is, so we leave everything as it is. For more details, I told about it in my article about.

    By automation. Decide yourself, but at least the voltage relay in the shield must be!

    Questions?!

    Dmitry, questions of the sea)))
    According to the office, these are those labararasia that comes in the network, they are taken or by volumes, or at a minimum for departure. If you tell me who in Moscow for a thousand, I will be glad.
    Is the general fireproof Uzo need to be in the shield?
    I repeat about the kitchen, I wanted to build a mini flap from connecting the plate. There is a washing machine, a microwave with a kettle and a TV on one block of sockets.
    I would like to unload it evenly.

    By automation. You wrote that at least this presence of the voltage relay ...
    And what else should be?

    Roman, in Moscow laboratories will not tell. The fireproof UzO does not need, it is enough to be a Uzo on the outgoing lines. A lot of automation that can be installed. Voltage relays, voltmeter, ammeter, phase light indicators and even sparking protection (new in our market). It all depends on your desire and opportunities. But as I said, without a voltage relay, it is definitely not necessary to do - this is a vital device.

    For an additional shield. On the slab you have 6 aluminum. Install the shield to the place where this cable comes. The slab coat as before - directly, plus you connect from this line, for example, two automaton 16 (a). And already from these machines with a new copper cable, the necessary blocks of sockets are powered. I can tell you more details, but you need to know more accurately what you want to do.

    Dmitry, we have a machine from 40a to become 25am. Although 6ka holds 32a. This is due to the lack of measurements, and the state of the wires?
    On the voltage relay, four years after your RV32A review, you also recommend it? And does it suit me according to the characteristics?

    In the kitchen.
    Now from the plate, directly, without any RCO and DIFs, was connected washing.
    TV, microwave, kettle and small coffee machine hang on the light line. There is a mucking upstairs, I just lowered down the block of sockets. And now the light from 16a became 10a, will not pull ...

    This is sad.

    Dmitry, thanks for the next intelligent video on YouTube. Pick up put up)))
    Here, there was still a question on previous recommendations. By automatic machines, characteristics (C) and (B), and I need a UZO, (a) or (AC)?

    Roman, I have the same storey shield. Intremely not advise you to connect to the cable of 6 square of aluminum, which goes on the stove, something else (kettle, microwave, etc.). I have been done so, and as a result, zero from this cable burned down on a storey shield. Now you have to pull a new cable from the shield into the kitchen, put a new block in the shield for zeros.

    And, in general, the novel, do not bother hard if you are a mortgage and apartment repair soon not foresee. On the plate cable (6 square aluminum), put a 25 amp machine. He will defend him consistently. You do not use all the comforts and oven at the same time? A 40 amp machine for such a cable is too much (initially there was a Soviet black machine on 16a). Place 10A on the light. On sockets 16a. Separately, launch from the storey shield to the kitchen normal copper cable 3x2.5 (VVGNG-LS or NYM) from the automaton of 16 amps. Make a pair of sockets for washer, microwave and kettle. To calm the soul, put an introductory machine to the apartment in 32a. It is thinly poorly protects the wires of 6 square allums from the total switch to your counter, and from the counter to your machines. Total in the shield you get 5 automata. Fits fit.

    I wanted to do so.

    And the puncture for the SIP cannot be used?

    Voltage relays are necessary. This is a fact

    5 years have passed, it wondered what or not?

) For all apartments located on the staircase.

However, modern trends changed the approach to the distribution of electrical energy and the electric booster began to be equipped directly in apartments. This was facilitated by several main reasons, namely:

  • Lack of space on store panels due to too much the number of electrical equipment placed ( , machine guns, counters and so on);
  • The need to preserve quite expensive electrical equipment from vandalism and theft;
  • Convenientness - to disable the consumer group in the apartment there is no need to go into the entrance;

There are electrical panels of hidden and outdoor installation.

Distribution of apartment power grid on groups

To improve the safety and reliability of power supply, as well as more convenience during operation and repair, the electrical network of apartments are broken into groups. The most popular distribution of apartment power grid into groups has the following form:

  • By consumer types - very well suitable for small apartments, where consumers are divided into the following groups: lighting, kitchen sockets, air conditioning, boiler, washing machine, outlets in rooms and so on;
  • By the premises - it is most advisable to use in large-sized apartments with great relative to power consumption in each room: kitchen, corridor, technical premises, rooms, and so on;
  • Quite often used and combined variation consisting of the methods described above;

The purpose of the apartment shield is an individual disconnection of the supply voltage for groups of electrical receivers, electricity accounting, indicating the presence of phases, and so on.

Very often, to implement protection and shutdown schemes, resort to the two most common options:

  • All sockets are connected via the RCD to one machine. The lighting circuits are connected to another automaton without using the UZO, and the third is used to power powerful consumers, such as washing machine, boiler, air conditioning and others.

Advantages of such a connection scheme:

  1. Simplicity;
  2. No need for additional junction boxes;
  3. Small cost;

Disadvantages:

  1. With an accident, the whole group of consumers will remain without power supply;
  2. More complex process of detection of malfunction on the line;
  • The circuit breaker combines the function of powering lighting and sockets with the distribution of powers in junction boxes. In this case, potentially dangerous chains should be supplied with the protection devices of the RCD.

Advantages:

  1. Each electric zone under control, which contributes to good management and rapidly finding faults on the line;
  2. Maximum protection;
  3. With an accident, almost all devices will remain connected to the network;

Disadvantages:

  1. The dimensions of the shield increase;
  2. The price of the project is significantly increasing;

Electrical panel scheme

The following shows the schematic diagram of the apartment electric tailor:

The panel circuit is made for single-phase input. The scheme is conditionally indicated: L is the supply voltage phase, N is neutral or zero working conductor, PE - protective grounding.

More detailed scheme below:

The introductory automatic protection automatic is a circuit breaker designed to fully disconnect the entire apartment in case of an emergency or for the forced shutdown of the entire apartment by the user itself.

Electrical counter - device for accounting for electricity consumption by this room. Measurement is carried out in kW ∙ hour. Can be both mechanical and electronic. Electronic electric meters can be programmed and transmit energy data to other electronic devices.

Differential automatic machine, which combines the functions of the circuit breaker and the protective shutdown device of the RCD.

Tires for connecting wires - equipped with a minimum of two. One to attach ground wires, and the second for zero wires.

In the specified shield there are two branches for individual groups (QA4, QA5). Group 1 has three branches (QA4), and group 2 two branches (QA5). This option may be suitable for separate functional groups of baths and kitchens.

Examples of flat-top schemes

The electrical installation of the apartment electrical panel is produced on the base of the electrical circuit. In case the shield is purchased assembly, the electrical principal scheme should be attached.

An example of a simple apartment electrical panel with the use of the RCD is shown below:

For clarity, cable sections and brand are shown, which can be used for individual cable lines.

On the right shows the standard equipment of a regular apartment. At entering the apartment, it is installed in series with a differential circuit breaker or a conventional circuit breaker. There may be several consumer groups in the shield.

In the shown example of the lighting group and sockets protected by two automatic W63 circuit breakers with a rated current of 16 A, as well as a machine with a nominal value of 25 A to protect the electric stove.

Quite often, air conditioners or washing machines are distinguished in a separate group.

The diagram of the electrical unit for a multi-room apartment will look about so (the scheme on the left):

The differential circuit breaker is installed to protect the kitchen sockets using a large number of different electrical appliances. Differential load switch makes protecting other objects - Lighting the bathrooms, room switches and other electrical equipment.

The following is a more complex scheme for the distribution shield of a multi-room apartment:

In this case, the VD63 UDO63 is installed with a differential current of 300 mA. This is due to the fact that the leakage current can be quite high due to the high length of the line and the installation of the RCD with a lower leakage current is possible false responses.

The first three automaton is necessary to protect the lighting chains. Differential automatic with current leakage 10 mA is used to protect the electrical equipment of the bathroom. Such a low trigger current is necessary due to the increased danger of electric shock in the bathroom. A group from the VD63 Uzo and three automata protects the outlets. The three-phase VA63 machine and the VD63 Uzo produce protection of powerful consumers, such as electric stove. The last line from one VD63 UDO63 and two W63 circuit breakers are designed to protect the chains of utility and other rooms.

Floor electrical panel or floor switchboard is intended for distribution and metering of electricity in floor apartment. To do this, various automatic distribution, protection, electricity accounting devices and other automation devices are installed on the floor electrical wheelchart. Also on the storey shield are installed devices for the distribution of weak current networks (telephony and computer network).

Floor shield (SHE) refers to circuit breakers, combining power and low-current electrical wiring. Unlike control panels (SHU), which provide power to electrical installations and the management of their technological processes, the Shhe provide the reception and distribution of electrical energy to consumers. By the way, megaholod production control cabinets will solve any tasks of automation of refrigeration, ventilation equipment and air conditioning.

Distinctive feature of the collar The presence of a low-current section and windows for external reading of electrical stale readings.

Floor Electrical Electrics - General Characteristics

  • Floor electrical wheel has two or three compartments. One for distribution or accounting and distribution of electricity. The second compartment is intended for low-current networks (telephony, Internet, alarm). All compartments must have separate doors.
  • Floor electrical panel with installed counters must have plexiglass windows in which the meter readings should be clearly visible.
  • The floor shield refers to the shields of the 1st class shields and are made only from metal.
  • Typically, the floor shield is installed in a niche, but the wall installation is found.
  • Shield doors should open at least 95⁰.
  • Shield doors must be shielded or have a special locking device.

How the floor electrical panel is mounted

Of course, you do not have to mount a floors. It is enough to figure out how it is arranged and wherever which terminals are provided in it. Consider the device of old and new storey shields.

Old storey shield

Consider, less, the standard electrical wheelchair of the old sample (see photos), in good condition.

Floor shield in the photo, designed for four apartments. It is divided into four parts.

For each apartment installed an input circuit breaker and a group of machine guns to protect the group chains of the apartment. A group of extreme right cars should belong to an extremely right apartment on the floor.

Instead of circuit breakers, combined seals (differential automata) can be installed on a floral shield. They must have a class B or C and have a switching capacity of at least 3000 amps. Let me remind you, the switching ability is the ability of the device to work after a short circuit of 3000 amps. That is, in the chain there was a KZ with a current of 3000 amps and the circuit breaker knocked out. After that, you share the gauge lever and it works further.

I advise you to choose automatic protection with a switching capacity of about 10,000 (ten thousand) amps.

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